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Police in Washington state fatally shoot man who threw rocks at them

ReverendHellh0und

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[h=1]Police in Washington state fatally shoot man who threw rocks at them[/h]
The officers attempted to use a stun gun to incapacitate Zambrano-Montes after he would not obey commands to surrender, before they opened fire and killed him, the statement said.
A video of the incident posted on YouTube and cited by local media showed the man running away from the three officers before he was killed.
In the 22-second video, the man moves across the street from the pursuing policemen. He turns to face them briefly, lifting his right arm as if to throw another object, when they open fire, according to the video.
Police in Washington state fatally shoot man who threw rocks at them



here's the Video:





Can someone tell me at what point in the video the man "lifting his right arm as if to throw another object, when they open fire, according to the video."?


 
here's the Video:





Can someone tell me at what point in the video the man "lifting his right arm as if to throw another object, when they open fire, according to the video."?


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The video only shows 10 seconds of the exchange. At this moment, we have no context of the situation, how long it lasted, or even if the cops told him to halt when bolted. In other words, let's not jump to conclusions like we did with Ferguson...
 
It's entirely open to interpretation but I can see the movement they're referring to.

I'm sure there will be a formal investigation (probably several!) where all the evidence will be presented and conclusions reached. I see nothing to gain and plenty to lose from promoting yet another trail by internet. It's entirely up to you whether you choose to feed the hate and profiteering that inevitably surrounds such cases.
 
The video only shows 10 seconds of the exchange. At this moment, we have no context of the situation, how long it lasted, or even if the cops told him to halt when bolted. In other words, let's not jump to conclusions like we did with Ferguson...



did you watch at around the 20 second mark?
 
here's the Video:





Can someone tell me at what point in the video the man "lifting his right arm as if to throw another object, when they open fire, according to the video."?


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From a witness:

Witness questions fatal shooting of rock-throwing man by Pasco police | The Today File | Seattle Times

Pasco resident Benjamin Patrick was with his wife and three children at the Fiesta Foods market in Pasco Tuesday afternoon and saw the man, whom Patrick described as between the ages of 25 and 30, struggling with a police officer on the side of the street. Patrick said he got out of his car and was going to help the officer when two other Pasco police officers drove up and confronted the man.

Patrick said he man was yelling at police. He said the man picked up two “rocks or dirt clods” and threw one, but it didn’t hit anyone.

At that point, he said, one of the officers tried to use a Taser, but Patrick doesn’t think both of the darts connected with the man. He said the man appeared to pull a dart from his arm, and then start walking across the intersection, which Patrick described as one of the busiest in town.

“That’s when they started shooting,” Patrick said in a telephone interview Wednesday with The Seattle Times. He counted five shots. “I could not believe they were shooting guns. There were cars and people everywhere.”

Patrick believes the man was first hit at that point. “I saw him react, sort of jump, like he’d been stung by a bee,” he said.

The man kept walking across the street onto the sidewalk, with the officers in pursuit. Patrick said he heard the police tell the man to get on the ground several times. The man appeared to turn, and a second volley of shots was fired and the man collapsed.

“I am really upset about what I saw,” said Patrick, who added that he was going to go to City Hall Wednesday to voice his concerns.

“Yes, he was resisting. Yes, he was wrong. But it looked like there might be something wrong with him. And he wasn’t hurting anyone. He had a rock, not a gun. It seems it could have been handled differently.”

If that is correct and he does have some mental issues, then it's another instance of that not being properly dealt with. But rocks are weapons and he could have hurt someone. I agree though it could have been handled differently.
 
It's entirely open to interpretation but I can see the movement they're referring to.

I'm sure there will be a formal investigation (probably several!) where all the evidence will be presented and conclusions reached. I see nothing to gain and plenty to lose from promoting yet another trail by internet. It's entirely up to you whether you choose to feed the hate and profiteering that inevitably surrounds such cases.



How do we discuss such events then? I'm not sure I support police shooting fleeing suspects in heavily populated areas, and I question at this point, the "arm raising" claim.

I can see that a fleeing suspect suddenly turning may cause one or more of the officers to get the "flee or fight" response and shoot, but we should not remain silent when we see such videos out of fear of x,y, or z.
 
From a witness:

Witness questions fatal shooting of rock-throwing man by Pasco police | The Today File | Seattle Times



If that is correct and he does have some mental issues, then it's another instance of that not being properly dealt with. But rocks are weapons and he could have hurt someone. I agree though it could have been handled differently.


"“That’s when they started shooting,” Patrick said in a telephone interview Wednesday with The Seattle Times. He counted five shots. “I could not believe they were shooting guns. There were cars and people everywhere.”"



yeah, this part disturbs me, the first round of shots was to a man walking away, in a busy intersection like that? To me not worth the risk of killing innocents,
 
From a witness:

Witness questions fatal shooting of rock-throwing man by Pasco police | The Today File | Seattle Times



If that is correct and he does have some mental issues, then it's another instance of that not being properly dealt with. But rocks are weapons and he could have hurt someone. I agree though it could have been handled differently.

So a suggestion by a totally random non expert that their might be something wrong with him, and you jump to the situation isn't handled correctly due to mental illness.

Tell me, AmericanWoman, do you think Police Officers should be forced to risk serious injury or death at a much higher rate because they were dealing with someone who has mental issues?

And.... do you think that finding out someone has mental problems AFTER the police have dealt with that person to be a bit of "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" when the police had no reason to know the person has mental problems beforehand?
 
Another case of disproportionate force. I remember when I was a kid and we'd get into trouble (stupid stuff like skateboarding) and run from the cops and just get tickets when we were caught. Now you can get killed for it apparently. That's disturbing.
 
This definately is a bad deal not only for the guy who was killed but everyone. He was unarmed and using a rock - granted a rock can be weapon but jesus people, just bum rush the guy, get him on his face, knee to the neck and handcuff the guy. Since we're seeing this now so often I have to ask - is this what these officers are taught to do in academy or is that these police are not willing to use physical restrain any longer? I'd hate to think these cops are just too lazy to get these people on their face and cuff them and instead, use tazers and when that doesn't work, just open fire. WTF!
 
Watch the whole video on youtube, full screen.

I dont have a problem with them shooting at the 20 second mark. I dont understand why they initially shot at the 5 second mark. THAT is the troubling incident (not knowing all the details). If in fact all he did was throw a rock, then they should not have shot. BUT...if you actually watch the full video, stop it at the 17 second mark. He very clearly reaches both hands into his pants under his shirt. At 18 seconds he imitates drawing something from his pants and pulls both arms at and points towards the officers at which point they open fire.
 
So a suggestion by a totally random non expert that their might be something wrong with him, and you jump to the situation isn't handled correctly due to mental illness.

Tell me, AmericanWoman, do you think Police Officers should be forced to risk serious injury or death at a much higher rate because they were dealing with someone who has mental issues?

And.... do you think that finding out someone has mental problems AFTER the police have dealt with that person to be a bit of "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" when the police had no reason to know the person has mental problems beforehand?


Did I not say "If that is correct"? :roll: Tell me Caine, do you jump to conclusions if police action isn't backed 100%? No, I don't think they should be forced to risk serious injury or death but they should be trained better to handle a situation like that without risking serious injury or death to innocent bystanders, or is shooting in a busy intersection a really good idea?
 
Tell me, AmericanWoman, do you think Police Officers should be forced to risk serious injury or death at a much higher rate because they were dealing with someone who has mental issues?



Yes, Police is a relatively safe job. police used to do it all the time.


here's a better question, should these officers have put the public in mortal danger by discharging thier weapons in a crowded street at a fleeing subject who was throwing rocks?


If the choice is putting cops in more danger or the civillians in more danger, I'd vote cops each and every time.
 
I see a guy turn around but I don't see hands raised past waste level, unless he's a softball pitcher......


What do yousee?
Answered below. I see him going into his waste band as if he were reaching for a gun and then bringing both arms to the fore.

I dont have a problem with them opening fire at 20 seconds, all things considered. I do have a problem with them opening fire at 5 seconds into the clip.
 
Did I not say "If that is correct"? :roll: Tell me Caine, do you jump to conclusions if police action isn't backed 100%? No, I don't think they should be forced to risk serious injury or death but they should be trained better to handle a situation like that without risking serious injury or death to innocent bystanders, or is shooting in a busy intersection a really good idea?

I don't believe I have claimed that police action should be backed in this incident.

I took issue with your jump to conclusions that if there is mental illness, then police should risk their lives furthur because of it. Even if it can't be known beforehand, and ESPECIALLY if a random person claims there might be something wrong with the guy.

If, or if they do not, have some sort of mental illness, the police should deal with people assaulting them in the same manner regardless of some sort of perceived mental illness.

Everybody today suffers from depression, bi-polar, ADHD, or some other form of mental illness it would seem. We live in a "I want drugs" society...and it is getting worse. Police shouldn't be forced to handle these people in some kind of special manner.
 
As far as this actual incident is concerned (my previous comments were not specific to THIS incident, but the idea that mentally ill people should be treated special when assaulting police)...

There is absolutely no reason why the police were shooting at the intersection.

I don't know WTF is going on with police these days. I've been out of the business for 2 years and some change now and I must have missed the memo on "Shoot anyone who is a threat to you" sent out worldwide that was sent out sometime after I left policing.

If indeed the dude was just throwing rocks...... You deal with the rocks and you move in close and fast and bring that guy to the ground. Hell, charge in with your arms covering your head and face if you have to and peek through a small opening between your arms as you run in quickly, but for ****s sake.... don't go blasting someone because they threw a rock at you (if indeed that is all that was happening).


I still stand by my statements that it doesn't matter if the person has a mental illness or not, you treat them the same when dealing with them assaulting police or the public.
 
As a non American all I can say is that of all the developed countries its only in the States could a petty incident like this resulted in a fatality. Indeed elsewhere the officers in question would most likely now be up on a murder charge. Talk about disproportionate force ! :shock:
 
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As far as this actual incident is concerned (my previous comments were not specific to THIS incident, but the idea that mentally ill people should be treated special when assaulting police)...

There is absolutely no reason why the police were shooting at the intersection.

I don't know WTF is going on with police these days. I've been out of the business for 2 years and some change now and I must have missed the memo on "Shoot anyone who is a threat to you" sent out worldwide that was sent out sometime after I left policing.

If indeed the dude was just throwing rocks...... You deal with the rocks and you move in close and fast and bring that guy to the ground. Hell, charge in with your arms covering your head and face if you have to and peek through a small opening between your arms as you run in quickly, but for ****s sake.... don't go blasting someone because they threw a rock at you (if indeed that is all that was happening).


I still stand by my statements that it doesn't matter if the person has a mental illness or not, you treat them the same when dealing with them assaulting police or the public.


i agree with this.


Mental people can be as deadly as anyone,.
 
Answered below. I see him going into his waste band as if he were reaching for a gun and then bringing both arms to the fore.

I dont have a problem with them opening fire at 20 seconds, all things considered. I do have a problem with them opening fire at 5 seconds into the clip.



I'm still working out the second part.

he's already been shot at and runs, how would he give up at that point to not get shot more?
 
I'm still working out the second part.

he's already been shot at and runs, how would he give up at that point to not get shot more?
Stop and lay down spread eagle.

Not to sound all Christmas carol-y, but do you see what I see? He VERY CLEARLY turns towards them, reaches into his waistband, and pulls up both hands. the 17-20 second span tells a separate story but you have to actually be able and willing to see it.

5 second mark? Nah...I dont get that. I mean, according to the reports the responded to a 'suspect' but no account of what he was suspected of and they reported that the taser was ineffective. Still...I think there has to have been a better way.
 
Stop and lay down spread eagle.

Not to sound all Christmas carol-y, but do you see what I see? He VERY CLEARLY turns towards them, reaches into his waistband, and pulls up both hands. the 17-20 second span tells a separate story but you have to actually be able and willing to see it.

5 second mark? Nah...I dont get that. I mean, according to the reports the responded to a 'suspect' but no account of what he was suspected of and they reported that the taser was ineffective. Still...I think there has to have been a better way.



I disagree, I watched it at full screen he's running away with his hands out as he turns his hands come in and out but there is no grabbing motion now could that have confused the police, maybe. but I don't think he could have done anything to not be shot down at that point except lay on the ground, but clear thinking goes out the window when people are shootinig at you.



edit to add, watching the video again, his hands go into a defensive position, not reaching for anything.
 
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