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Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

You think I couldn't back up that view? You need look no further than the strict rules of engagement that have been placed on US military personnel when in the Middle East. For instance, we all know that our troops are prohibited from attacking/destroying mosques, even when we know damn well that attacks are being organized in there. Hell, ISIS doesn't even give that consideration as has been demonstrate by them destroying multiple religions sites.

So you think the U.S. was in the Middle East for the sake of all those innocent children who were killed by the U.S. as a result of the invasion and occupation of Iraq?
 
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Sinister though Hoover undoubtedly was , he's been dead now for 43 years , during which time things have certainly improved. Unlike with Russia I seriously doubt journalists are being killed for speaking out today

Here's something of interest

According to an MSNBC story on December 13, Rumsfeld’s Pentagon is tracking some of the most innocuous and lawful protests.

For instance, the Pentagon has a file on an anti-war group that was gathering at the Quaker Meeting House in Lake Worth, Florida, to plan a counter-recruiting effort at local high schools.

That group of Quakers constitutes a “threat,” according to a 400-page Pentagon document that MSNBC got hold of.

It was “one of more than 1,500 ‘suspicious incidents’ across the country over a recent 10-month period” that caught the attention of the Pentagon snoops, MSNBC said. Of these, “nearly four dozen” were anti-war meetings or protests.

Rumsfeld Spies on Quakers and Grannies | The Progressive
 
So you think the U.S. was in the Middle East for the sake of all those innocent children who were killed by the U.S. as a result of the invasion and occupation of Iraq?

You and I both know steel that the US went into Iraq for multiple reasons. Of course, had everything gone as the US planned, all those innocent children never would of died because the US would of been out of there shortly after establishing a new government. But if you are going to talk about all the innocents killed, make sure you mention the majority of those killed in the conflict was due to sectarian strife and civil war. You can argue the US made a bad move in removing Hussein because he kept the radicals in check, but there's no way in hell you can argue that he was good for the majority Shiite or the Kurds for that matter.

And before you're dumb enough to step into "ITZ ALLZ FOR OILZ!!!" shtick, you might want to have a gander at where the majority of the oil goes to.
 
Simpleχity;1064322275 said:
Why shut it down? It has a daily (Mon-Fri) circulation of 35,000.

Lol. Exactly the same daily circulation as the Town Prairie Leader newspaper of rural Todd County in Minnesota...

MN_21492.gif

Which can spread and find their way in all corners. But Putin doesn't shut it down. What you can't explain, is the fact that Putin allows a paper critical of himself and his government to be published and distributed in the heart of Russia.
 
You and I both know steel that the US went into Iraq for multiple reasons. Of course, had everything gone as the US planned, all those innocent children never would of died because the US would of been out of there shortly after establishing a new government. But if you are going to talk about all the innocents killed, make sure you mention the majority of those killed in the conflict was due to sectarian strife and civil war. You can argue the US made a bad move in removing Hussein because he kept the radicals in check, but there's no way in hell you can argue that he was good for the majority Shiite or the Kurds for that matter.

And before you're dumb enough to step into "ITZ ALLZ FOR OILZ!!!" shtick, you might want to have a gander at where the majority of the oil goes to.

People say we’re not fighting for oil. Of course we are. They talk about America’s national interest. What the hell do you think they’re talking about? We’re not there for figs.

Chuck Hagel, 2007


4 Star General John Abizaid – the former commander of CENTCOM with responsibility for Iraq – said:

Of course it’s about oil, it’s very much about oil, and we can’t really deny that.

Former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan – a long-time Republican – said in 2007:

I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil


John McCain said in 2008:

My friends, I will have an energy policy that we will be talking about, which will eliminate our dependence on oil from the Middle East that will — that will then prevent us — that will prevent us from having ever to send our young men and women into conflict again in the Middle East.


Key war architect – and Under Secretary of State – John Bolton said:

The critical oil and natural gas producing region that we fought so many wars to try and protect our economy from the adverse impact of losing that supply or having it available only at very high prices.
 
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People say we’re not fighting for oil. Of course we are. They talk about America’s national interest. What the hell do you think they’re talking about? We’re not there for figs.

Chuck Hagel, 2007


4 Star General John Abizaid – the former commander of CENTCOM with responsibility for Iraq – said:

Of course it’s about oil, it’s very much about oil, and we can’t really deny that.

Former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan – a long-time Republican – said in 2007:

I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil


John McCain said in 2008:

My friends, I will have an energy policy that we will be talking about, which will eliminate our dependence on oil from the Middle East that will — that will then prevent us — that will prevent us from having ever to send our young men and women into conflict again in the Middle East.

People say stupid ****, or otherwise get misquoted all the time, doesn't make it any more true. It is true that we would like maintain a stable flow of oil from the region, but that is a far cry different then trying to push the idea that we went to Iraq for western oil companies to take over all the oil exporting from Iraq and ship that stuff straight to the west. We know this isn't true from the results:

US EIA Report: Iraq

That's right, the US isn't even the leading importer of oil from Iraq, CHINA IS!

Now stop making yourself look like fool with such dribble, it's embarrassing.
 
Which can spread and find their way in all corners. But Putin doesn't shut it down. What you can't explain, is the fact that Putin allows a paper critical of himself and his government to be published and distributed in the heart of Russia.
Simple. It provides him an out for folks who grasp at the most tenuous of straws.
 
People say stupid ****, or otherwise get misquoted all the time, doesn't make it any more true. It is true that we would like maintain a stable flow of oil from the region, but that is a far cry different then trying to push the idea that we went to Iraq for western oil companies to take over all the oil exporting from Iraq and ship that stuff straight to the west. We know this isn't true from the results:

US EIA Report: Iraq

That's right, the US isn't even the leading importer of oil from Iraq, CHINA IS!

Now stop making yourself look like fool with such dribble, it's embarrassing.

These are just people, Jesus, ok HB. And what are you and what are you spewing?
 
Simpleχity;1064322570 said:
Simple. It provides him an out for folks who grasp at the most tenuous of straws.

Oh, it's a Putin out.
 
You and I both know steel that the US went into Iraq for multiple reasons. Of course, had everything gone as the US planned, all those innocent children never would of died because the US would of been out of there shortly after establishing a new government. But if you are going to talk about all the innocents killed, make sure you mention the majority of those killed in the conflict was due to sectarian strife and civil war. You can argue the US made a bad move in removing Hussein because he kept the radicals in check, but there's no way in hell you can argue that he was good for the majority Shiite or the Kurds for that matter.

And before you're dumb enough to step into "ITZ ALLZ FOR OILZ!!!" shtick, you might want to have a gander at where the majority of the oil goes to.

The point is that the U.S. did not kill those innocent children for their own good. We did not go there for the good of all involved.
 
I don't doubt the government do this but its some way short of killing people

Obama kills people without a trial and says that anyone standing near them who is killed is not a civilian.
 
Which reporter did he do this to ?

Did I say he did it to a reporter?

BTW, with respect to reporters:

Bush claim revives al-Jazeera bombing fears | Media | The Guardian

Claims that George Bush planned to bomb the Arabic TV news station al-Jazeera have fuelled concerns that an attack on the broadcaster's Baghdad offices during the war on Iraq was deliberate.

An international journalists group today demanded "complete disclosure" from the British and American governments over reports that the US considered attacking the al-Jazeera HQ in the Qatar capital, Doha.

The International Federation of Journalists claimed that 16 journalists and other media staff have died at the hands of US forces in Iraq, adding that the deaths had not been properly investigated.

Al-Jazeera cameraman Tarek Ayoub was killed when the station's Baghdad office was bombed during a US air raid on April 8 2003. On the same day a US tank shelled the Palestine hotel in the Iraqi capital, killing two other journalists.

"Reports that George Bush and Tony Blair discussed a plan to bomb al-Jazeera reinforce concerns that the US attack in Baghdad on April 8 [2003] was deliberate targeting of the media," said Aidan White, the general secretary of the IFJ.

"If that is the case then the US is guilty of a gross violation of international humanitarian law and on the face of it the murder of an innocent journalist.

"The evidence is stacking up to suggest that the US decided to take out al-Jazeera in Baghdad, as a warning not only to them but to other media about their coverage. If true, it is an absolute scandal that the US administration can regard the staff of al-Jazeera as a bunch of terrorists and a legitimate target."
 
Obama kills people without a trial and says that anyone standing near them who is killed is not a civilian.

Right, and with the blessing of the right. In fact the only time the right doesn't criticise Obama is when he's killing people. Or if he's not doing more of it, Syria, then he'll be criticised.
 
Right, and with the blessing of the right. In fact the only time the right doesn't criticise Obama is when he's killing people. Or if he's not doing more of it, Syria, then he'll be criticised.

Yeah they don't seem to have a problem with that type of stuff. But when I say I got some free birth control pills because of the ACA they get all upset. It makes you wonder.
 
Did I say he did it to a reporter?

BTW, with respect to reporters:

Bush claim revives al-Jazeera bombing fears | Media | The Guardian

Gary Webb, the reporter for the San Jose Mercury News, who blew the lid off of Reagan's Iran/Contra (drug/gun running) scandal, which fingered Ollie North, and forced a 400 page admission by the CIA, had his life ruined. Was working on more of the story when he was found dead in his apartment, shot twice in the head, and it was ruled a suicide!
 
Gary Webb, the reporter for the San Jose Mercury News, who blew the lid off of Reagan's Iran/Contra (drug/gun running) scandal, which fingered Ollie North, and forced a 400 page admission by the CIA, had his life ruined. Was working on more of the story when he was found dead in his apartment, shot twice in the head, and it was ruled a suicide!

Yeah I remember that. Poor guy. That is so unfortunate.
 
Do not **** with the CIA, in the end it is not different than the KGB!!!!!!

At the end of the day it all boils down to people with power. People that have substantial amounts of power have a tendency to abuse it.
 
At the end of the day it all boils down to people with power. People that have substantial amounts of power have a tendency to abuse it.

Right. So the point being, the less democratic a country, the more overt the government crimes, and the more democratic the country, the more covert the government crimes. Its funny to me though the numbers of people that will take issue with that notion, only because its non partisan. If I were to claim that the Obama administration was guilty of such, no prob from the right, right? And if I were to say that of a republican administration, no problem from the left. It's when you point out BOTH, that you suddenly become an America hater, lol!
 
Right. So the point being, the less democratic a country, the more overt the government crimes, and the more democratic the country, the more covert the government crimes. Its funny to me though the numbers of people that will take issue with that notion, only because its non partisan. If I were to claim that the Obama administration was guilty of such, no prob from the right, right? And if I were to say that of a republican administration, no problem from the left. It's when you point out BOTH, that you suddenly become an America hater, lol!

I think you have touched on something here. Not only is the degree of overtness a function of the degree of democracy, it is also a function of how effective the brainwashing mechanisms, that those who weld government power have at their disposal, are. Your observation on the America hater label demonstrates that.
 
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