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Thread: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

  1. #21
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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    If this was just a conflict between Ukrainians, then I'd says yes. Unfortunately, the moment the Russians stuck their nose into it, we have to respond with support. However, just because we support them, doesn't mean we should also be dictating how it plays out in the end. There's a difference you see?
    I could use your rhetoric tool and say that your post is stupid but it would be counterproductive. Instead I will say that what you have ignored is this



    and these statements by the Assistant Secretary of State pictured above.

    “Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of government - all that is necessary to achieve the objectives of Ukraine’s European. We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals. ”
    What is really going on in Ukraine is a struggle between the United States and Russia over influence in Europe. As such BOTH THE UNITED STATES AND RUSSIA HAVE THERE NOSES STUCK INTO THE AFFAIRS OF UKRAINE. Therefore it is certain that the U.S. will indeed try to influence how this plays out in the end, because how it plays out in the end will determine the amount of influence that Russia has in the world relative to the U.S.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I could use your rhetoric tool and say that your post is stupid but it would be counterproductive. Instead I will say that what you have ignored is this



    and these statements by the Assistant Secretary of State pictured above.

    What is really going on in Ukraine is a struggle between the United States and Russia over influence in Europe. As such BOTH THE UNITED STATES AND RUSSIA HAVE THERE NOSES STUCK INTO THE AFFAIRS OF UKRAINE. Therefore it is certain that the U.S. will indeed try to influence how this plays out in the end, because how it plays out in the end will determine the amount of influence that Russia has in the world relative to the U.S.
    Well at least you provided the full quote rather than the fascist propaganda of the Kremlin that states that the US funded the Euromaidan protesters with $5 billion, the U.S. has granted aid to the Ukrainian government since they declared independence that included aid to pro-Kremlin administrations; such as, Yanukovych as well, to compare that to the Russian invasion and annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory or funding, arming and training mass murdering Russian terrorists is laughable in the extreme.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Anyway, even if honoured, it just means that the two sides stop shooting at one another. There's still the matter that the separatists want autonomy, and Kiev is unwilling to allow it. There really is little hope that anything is over.
    That is correct. This issue will not be resolved until Russia's concerns about autonomy for the regions of eastern Ukraine are satisfied. At some point those demands will have to be met. Therefore the parties involved should get it over with and do the needful.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Well at least you provided the full quote rather than the fascist propaganda of the Kremlin that states that the US funded the Euromaidan protesters with $5 billion, the U.S. has granted aid to the Ukrainian government since they declared independence that included aid to pro-Kremlin administrations; such as, Yanukovych as well, to compare that to the Russian invasion and annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory or funding, arming and training mass murdering Russian terrorists is laughable in the extreme.
    Russia has it's BS propaganda, the U.S. has it's BS propaganda. There is nothing new about that.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Another item that I wish to comment on at this time is Point 6. of the Minsk II document:

    6. Ensure that the release and exchange of hostages and illegally detained persons based on the principle of "all for all". This process must be completed no later than the fifth day after the challenge.
    The "challenge" referred to above is the withdrawal of heavy weapons as delineated in the document. "All for all" to my mind is all-inclusive. This implies that Russia is obligated to release Ukrainian POW Lieutenant Nadezhda Savchenko who was captured by the rebels in late June of 2014 and then conveyed to Russia in early July of 2014 and has been held in Russian custody ever since. Russia claims she was complicit in a war crime. If this is so however, Lieutenant Savchenko should be transferred to the International Criminal Court Tribunal in the Hague and prosecuted in an impartial venue. To date, Russia has refused all appeals to release/transfer this POW.
    Asked about this, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov had this to say...

    Xinhuanet
    February 13, 2015

    Speaking of detained Ukrainian pilot Nadezhda Savchenko, Peskov said Savchenko's case would be decided by a Russian court, adding "no promises of Savchenko's prompt release were made at the meeting and the degree of her guilt would be determined by court."
    The Minsk II ink isn't even dry yet and Russia is still refusing to release this POW.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Ukraine: 'Putin tried to delay ceasefire deal so rebels could capture Debaltseve'

    Friday 13 February 2015

    The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, sought to delay agreement on a Ukrainian ceasefire at talks in Minsk because he wanted pro-Russia separatists to capture the eastern railway hub of Debaltseve, an EU summit has been told. Three of the four leaders at the talks in Minsk – the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, France’s president, François Hollande, and Ukraine’s embattled president, Petro Poroshenko – dashed to the Brussels summit directly from Belarus. Briefing 26 other EU heads of government on the fraught negotiations that resulted in a truce supposed to start on Sunday, the Minsk participants painted a picture that failed to inspire confidence.

    Witnesses to the discussion said all the EU leaders were skeptical about the success of the Minsk peace plan, not least because Putin had resisted pressure for a ceasefire. He hoped to delay the truce by 10 days, the summit heard, in order to force the surrender of up to 8,000 Ukrainian troops who are surrounded in Debaltseve by pro-Russia separatists. Putin was said to have made it clear that Debaltseve had to fall. In public remarks following the deal, Putin also said that the separatists had the Ukrainian forces encircled and that “of course, they expect [the Ukrainians] to lay down their arms and cease resistance”.
    According to Merkel, Hollande, and Poroshenko, the little prick Putin wanted to extend the bloodshed and carnage for 10 days! to ensure the capture of Debaltseve. The strategically important rail-hub of Debaltseve will lie in a buffer zone at 00.00 am Kyiv time on February 15.



    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    If this was just a conflict between Ukrainians, then I'd says yes. Unfortunately, the moment the Russians stuck their nose into it, we have to respond with support. However, just because we support them, doesn't mean we should also be dictating how it plays out in the end. There's a difference you see?
    Wtf!!!! The Russians have been involved in negotiations all along with Ukraine, for years. After Ukraine elected Yanukovych the request to join NATO was withdrawn (2010) then in the Fall of 2013 he decided a better deal was to be had with Russia, which is when the US (Victoria Nuland and Co.) stuck their nose in!!!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Yes the fascists in the Kremlin and their ministry of propaganda known as RT are proven to have lied about every major issue regarding this conflict from the start, glad you are starting to get the picture.
    Proven, bwahahahahaha, by who???????
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Russia has it's BS propaganda, the U.S. has it's BS propaganda. There is nothing new about that.
    See that's just the thing. But let the patronising klan tell it and the US hasn't/doesn't EVER disseminate propaganda, and all governments benefit from such died in the wool nationalism.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Asked about this, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov had this to say...



    The Minsk II ink isn't even dry yet and Russia is still refusing to release this POW.
    A POW is neither a hostage, nor an illegally detained person!!!!!!!!!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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