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Thread: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Drunk Ukrainian soldiers flooded the city Artemovsk:

    ARTEMIVSK, Ukraine — As violence continued to plague eastern Ukraine on Thursday, demoralized Ukrainian soldiers straggled into the town of Artemivsk, griping about incompetent leadership and recounting desperate conditions and gruesome killing as they beat a haphazard retreat from the strategic town of Debaltseve.

    Gunshots rang out on the central square, as many soldiers began drinking heavily. One soldier stood, swaying, on the sidewalk mumbling to himself. Others, who had escaped from Debaltseve after weeks of shelling, were seizing taxicabs without payment. It was not clear that all of them had been given places to sleep, and one group stood silently, shivering on a street outside the Hotel Ukraine.

    At Biblios, an upscale restaurant, soldiers tramped about the dining room, ordering brandy that they could not afford, then firing shots into the ceiling as the paying guests quietly fled the premises.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/wo...html?ref=world

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I've responded to that inquiry on multiple occasions. The US is backing a regime in Kiev that Russia does not recognise as legitimate. An angry mob consisting of a fraction of the population of Ukraine converged at Maiden Square in the Capitol and began burning federal buildings, and demanding the ouster of president Yanukovych, and fired upon his motorcade as he fled for his life. That is not the democratic model, and neither you or any other poster at DP that supports it, would support it in the UK, Germany, Canada, the US, etc.
    Once again please quantify and identify this alleged backing the US gave to the Maidan protesters ? How was this 'support' provided ? Was it arms , money, food parcels, first aid or perhaps applause and flag waving ? I guess I like many here will continue to wait with baited breath for proof that your cherished conspiracy theory exists anywhere but within your own head

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Once again please quantify and identify this alleged backing the US gave to the Maiden protesters ? How was this 'support' provided ? Was it arms , money, food parcels, first aid or perhaps applause and flag waving ? I guess I like many here will continue to wait with baited breath for proof that your cherished conspiracy theory exists anywhere but within your own head
    Part of Russian disinformation relies on half truths and the way they are presented. If one say that Amnesty International fed the demonstrators soup to warm them up the impact is quite different from saying the US incited mobs in Kiev and fostered Maiden unrest.

    In many cases here and in other fora I am not sure, whether the foristi are naively repeating or intentionally distorting information.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The US is backing a regime in Kiev that Russia does not recognise as legitimate.
    An outright fabrication. Every nation - including Russia and even Viktor Yanukovych) recognized the validity of the 2014 Ukraine Presidential Election.

    Russia also recognized the 2014 Ukraine Parliamentary elections...

    Russia to Recognize Ukraine Election Results, Says Lavrov


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

    Repeal and Replace Trump.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Once again please quantify and identify this alleged backing the US gave to the Maidan protesters ? How was this 'support' provided ? Was it arms , money, food parcels, first aid or perhaps applause and flag waving ? I guess I like many here will continue to wait with baited breath for proof that your cherished conspiracy theory exists anywhere but within your own head
    Besides the Nuland's behind the scenes negotiations and support for Yanukovych's replacement, yes, a lot of applause and flag waving for activities that no Westerner would consider democratic, or an acceptable means of replacing a president in their country. Tell me hypocrite. Would you be applauding, and waving the flag if the same situation were to unfold in London, and Cameron was driven from his office on Downing Street? No, of course you would not!!!!


    Another Research & Branding Group survey (conducted from 23 to 27 December) showed that 45% of Ukrainians supported Euromaidan, while 50% did not.[128] 43% Of those polled thought that Euromaidan's consequences "sooner could be negative", while 31% of the respondents thought the opposite; 17% believed that Euromaidan would bring no negative consequences.[128]

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan
    Last edited by Montecresto; 02-20-15 at 10:16 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Besides the Nuland's behind the scenes negotiations and support for Yanukovych's replacement, yes, a lot of applause and flag waving for activities that no Westerner would consider democratic, or an acceptable means of replacing a president in their country. Tell me hypocrite. Would you be applauding, and waving the flag if the same situation were to unfold in London, and Cameron was driven from his office on Downing Street? No, of course you would not!!!!
    Anyone who does not know about the support the U.S. gave to the protestors is very uninformed. We had the Assistant Secretary of State, the Ambassador, and U.S. senators out there supporting the protestors.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Anyone who does not know about the support the U.S. gave to the protestors is very uninformed. We had the Assistant Secretary of State, the Ambassador, and U.S. senators out there supporting the protestors.
    Oh, these guys are most certainly not uninformed. Their dishonesty in this is quite deliberate!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh, these guys are most certainly not uninformed. Their dishonesty in this is quite deliberate!
    I agree. They will outright lie, twist your words and do anything. That's why at some point when discussing with certain people, I stop.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    An outright fabrication. Every nation - including Russia and even Viktor Yanukovych) recognized the validity of the 2014 Ukraine Presidential Election.

    Russia also recognized the 2014 Ukraine Parliamentary elections...

    Russia to Recognize Ukraine Election Results, Says Lavrov
    Nice try, but we were referring to the regime that was installed with Western support, that prompted Russia's response and emergency action in Crimea. I know that you know this but seem to think being coy is cute.

    An interim government was quickly announced, leading Yanukovych to come out of hiding, and in a press conference, declare that he would not be relinquishing his claim to the presidency—calling the actions to appoint a new government a coup—and that he had fled Kiev when he received threats to his life.

    Yanukovych’s statements provided Russia with a rationale for action. “When we see this we understand what worries the citizens of Ukraine, both Russian and Ukrainian, and the Russian-speaking population in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine. It is this uncontrolled crime that worries them,” Russian President Vladimir Putin said in an unscripted conversation with press on March 3rd. “Therefore, if we see such uncontrolled crime spreading to the eastern regions of the country, and if the people ask us for help, while we already have the official request from the legitimate President, we retain the right to use all available means to protect those people. We believe this would be absolutely legitimate.”

    http://www.diplomaticourier.com/news...d-russia-apart
    Last edited by Montecresto; 02-20-15 at 10:28 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    Drunk Ukrainian soldiers flooded the city Artemovsk:
    I am not surprised. They probably don't feel like a part of the country they are trying to defend. There was no parade for coming home, no women lining the streets. Sometimes it is hard to come home as a soldier.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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