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Thread: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Stop being so naive about this Buddha.

    The Carter Doctrine was a policy proclaimed by President of the United States Jimmy Carter in his State of the Union Address on January 23, 1980, which stated that the United States would use military force if necessary to defend its national interests in the Persian Gulf region. The doctrine was a response to the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, and was intended to deter the Soviet Union—the Cold War adversary of the United States—from seeking hegemony in the Persian Gulf. After stating that Soviet troops in Afghanistan posed "a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil", Carter proclaimed:

    Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force. (full speech)

    United States presidential doctrines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Like Hagel said, "what the hell do you think we're in the ME for, figs"?
    For real. Even Greenspan said everyone knows the war was about oil

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    He has. Withdraw from Debaltseve and save many lives. The sobering reality is that the rebels repudiated the Minsk II Accord in Debaltseve.
    Yes they did that and I am sure that the Ukrainian government did the same. As I think Dave pointed out, no one really expected that situation to be any different.

    My point is that the reality of the situation appears to indicate the Poroshenko is going to have to give Eastern Ukraine a significant amount of autonomy.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    There's a difference between maintaining the free flow, which I agree is a huge part of foreign policy in the region, and say going into a county with the explicit purpose to get more oil. That being that our focus is not to force regional players into doing X, but merely to make sure everyone plays nice. What you and others are accusing the US of doing is moving from a neutral actor to someone who is in it just for the benefits the US will receive. If that was the case, again, we'd be getting a lot better than third in Iraqi oil exports don't you think?



    Refer to previous post.
    Refer to the Carter doctrine and stop ignoring the fact that US hegemony since (at least) the Carter administration has been, it's ours, and any attempts at interference WILL BE MET WITH MILITARY FORCE if need be. And indeed, these decades have been full of it, and the side effect is a very powerful and spreading extremist Islamic State!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    For real. Even Greenspan said everyone knows the war was about oil
    It's the elephant in the room that gets continually ignored. This is a direct result of too many putting their god damn party in front of their country, along with a heavy dose of, our **** don't stink, patronising.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's the elephant in the room that gets continually ignored. This is a direct result of too many putting their god damn party in front of their country, along with a heavy dose of, our **** don't stink, patronising.
    Absolutely. Actually we can see that this type of thing is very dangerous and has led to the unnecessary loss of life and depleted precious monetary resources that could have been used for something useful like improving education here. It is amazing that we continue these practices. Totally amazing.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Looks like the Ukrainian army has conceded Debaltseve. Poroshenko needs to come to a conclusion about the reality of the situation.
    It's the EU that needs to wake up to reality: You can't make a deal with Putin and expect him (or his proxies) to honor it.

    It's time we start arming Ukraine.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    They were surrounded before the ceasefire commenced and that is the point. Poroshenko knew they were toast and had no more respect for his own Ukrainian troops than for the Ukrainian separatists he has been offensively attacking. Poroshenko is defending his IMF loan package because Ukraine was not attacked by the separatists. Now, with lots more dead Poroshenko can ponder the wisdom of his collossal igrorance. The Kiev leadership makes pond scum look like a higher life form and the USA supports them. Disgusting!
    What's disgusting is that you blame Pororshenko for everything when it is the Russian-backed terrorists who are doing it all.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    It's the EU that needs to wake up to reality: You can't make a deal with Putin and expect him (or his proxies) to honor it.

    It's time we start arming Ukraine.
    No, it decidedly is NOT!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    What's disgusting is that you blame Pororshenko for everything when it is the Russian-backed terrorists who are doing it all.
    Ah, I see. It's very clever the way they got Poroshenko to bring all his artillery and Army to East Ukraine to defend his Nation's honor against those Ukrainians that disagree with him. Now, those pesky rebels keep getting those artillaries and Armies into compromising positions causing them to die of their own ignorance. It's the rebel's fault because they must have created a Nazi magnet that draws these ignoramuses ever closer. It's probably just me, but I would have thought negotiation could have prevented the entire debacle.

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    Re: Ceasefire agreed for eastern Ukraine after Minsk summit

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Ah, I see. It's very clever the way they got Poroshenko to bring all his artillery and Army to East Ukraine to defend his Nation's honor against those Ukrainians that disagree with him. Now, those pesky rebels keep getting those artillaries and Armies into compromising positions causing them to die of their own ignorance. It's the rebel's fault because they must have created a Nazi magnet that draws these ignoramuses ever closer. It's probably just me, but I would have thought negotiation could have prevented the entire debacle.
    There had been no war in Ukraine in the 23 years since its independence and there still would be none now were it not for Russian intervention.

    Predictably though whatever the evidence you'll stick to blaming the nasty capitalist bankers and the CIA nonetheless .... ho hum

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