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Thread: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    DOMA passed the Senate 85-14, House 342-67. Signed by Bill Clinton. So, keep telling us all how the GOP forced it through. I guess they forced through Obamacare too.

    Unfortunately, you really don't seem to have a clue how things are supposed to work. Good luck with the all powerful government you crave.
    I can only speak for me, but an all powerful government EXPANDING human rights isn't on my "Top Ten Things to Worry About" list.

    That's the beauty of SSM. We can extend the right (or privilege if you prefer) to gay couples without requiring any sacrifice from traditionally married couples.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I can only speak for me, but an all powerful government EXPANDING human rights isn't on my "Top Ten Things to Worry About" list.

    That's the beauty of SSM. We can extend the right (or privilege if you prefer) to gay couples without requiring any sacrifice from traditionally married couples.
    OMG, does anyone here read at all? You are are responding to me with this? Jeez.
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    DOMA passed the Senate 85-14, House 342-67. Signed by Bill Clinton. So, keep telling us all how the GOP forced it through. I guess they forced through Obamacare too.

    Unfortunately, you really don't seem to have a clue how things are supposed to work. Good luck with the all powerful government you crave.
    You keep trying to shift this off to dems, don't you? Why? Think about why you might be doing that.

    It's true, as I said, the bill was veto-proof - strong R congress, but it needed Dem support. This wasn't hard, as

    1) there was not that much support 20 years ago even amongst some dems,

    2) the GOP painted it very stark (I remember well the debates at the time) -- if you were against the measure, you were against families. Might as well hold a bill asking if you were against apple pie & baseball. The optics were hugely in favor (now listen close)

    of the party that pushed DOMA.

    3) The GOP wanted - as was stated earlier -- a Constitutional Amendment to ban SSM nationwide!

    All those combined helped DOMA pass.

    And listen more carefully now: For twenty ****ing years, Republicans defended it! (Some still do)

    That's something you cannot run away from, and something the dems didn't do -- and the GOP even spent MILLIONS -- after the administration said it would no long defend it in court,-- fighting for it.

    Millions. Just a few years ago. Then Windsor dealt its might blow.

    The horrible bill - calling for the "Defense of Marriage" - (which ironically was authored by a GOP twerp, who was on his third marriage - ha!) was, for a good portion, trashed as being Unconstitutional. As it should have been.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    OMG, does anyone here read at all? You are are responding to me with this? Jeez.
    Please explain to us all in what way expanding rights by striking down state laws such as the same sex marriage bans gives us an "all powerful government". This is what we are discussing, striking down same sex marriage bans, nothing else that the federal government might do. So, if your comment is not dealing with the federal government striking down those marriage laws, then it is way off topic.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Sounds like a modern day George Wallace.


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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    DOMA passed the Senate 85-14, House 342-67. Signed by Bill Clinton. So, keep telling us all how the GOP forced it through. I guess they forced through Obamacare too.

    Unfortunately, you really don't seem to have a clue how things are supposed to work. Good luck with the all powerful government you crave.
    You're the one defending authoritarianism. You are defending government restriction on individual choice.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Please explain to us all in what way expanding rights by striking down state laws such as the same sex marriage bans gives us an "all powerful government". This is what we are discussing, striking down same sex marriage bans, nothing else that the federal government might do. So, if your comment is not dealing with the federal government striking down those marriage laws, then it is way off topic.
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You're the one defending authoritarianism. You are defending government restriction on individual choice.
    Well, to be fair, no he's not.

    He's defending government restriction of what benefits are provided for that individual choice.

    The "individual choice" is entering into a marriage. The government does not restrict that choice in any fashion.

    What it restricts is whether or not the government will RECOGNIZE that marriage and provides it with all the legal ramifications said recognition provides.

    When speaking of Marriage as a legal entity you are not speaking of an "individual choice", because it has a component that is absolutely not "individual" in nature (the legal ramifications and benefits of it).

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Single people wouldn't have a standing because they could get the same "benefits" by simply getting married, which also comes with responsibilities.

    And you are mistaken on how "compelling government interest" works. It is based on a "compelling government interest" to prevent something, not to have something happen. This means the government would have to show why two people should not be allowed to marry even if they say "I'm not attracted to this person". It isn't any of their business if the people aren't attracted to each other. Court testimony, so long as it still only applies while the people are in a relationship, wouldn't change. Custody rights work or should work the same whether the people are married or not. The only difference should be if married, this shows that someone who is not a parent to the children is willing to take on the responsibility of those children.

    We don't actually require married people to live together now. We don't require a love or attraction test for married couples now. Marriages for reasons other than love or attraction happen all the time.
    I'm saying if it became a pattern like a critical mass of people started marrying their friends they don't live with, just for tax benefits or immigration or whatever, it would be a "compelling government interest" to not allow it. I could "sell" a green card to a foreigner by marrying them. I could bribe a witness to marry me before they get to testify against me in court. Yes, these tactics are done already. But if marriage became so cheapened it became more common to marry a friend than partner, don't expect the INS or justice dept or adoption agencies to sit there and go along with it.

    But this is the last i intend to say about it, because to me, SSM has always been about the rights of gay couples

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Sexual orientation is not yet recognized at the federal level as a protected class. Some gay people would like to get married now. Gender discrimination is already established law. So I'm taking the 'humane' and 'human' approach.

    It's called winning a battle, one of many, in the war.
    i would rather wait until june than to 'win' under a false banner. In addition, depending how the majority ruling is worded, orientation may indeed be construed as a protected class starting this summer. Then the dominoes really start to fall in terms of employment and housing rights etc

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