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Thread: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    Gender is protected
    That's already been decided.
    Why would you want anyone to show how current marriage laws protect gender?
    Because I don't believe that current marriage laws protect based on gender. As I've already highlighted in this thread, current marriage laws prohibit women from doing something that men can do. Similarly, current marriage laws prohibit men from doing something that women can do.

    The point was that the argument would be that the Court should not be deciding the case in terms of gender but rather orientation.
    That's not really an argument. Going "I don't think that it should be done on that basis" isn't actually offering a counter to any of the points I've made, it's just saying "I disagree because I disagree".

    It is UNQUESTIONABLE that the law discriminates on the basis of gender. It is unquestionable that the law allows a man to do something a woman can't do, and allows a woman to do something a man can't do. So the question is whether or not there is an argument that such discrimination is substantially related to an important state interest. Going "Well, I don't think it should be judged on that factor" isn't actually an argument against anything I'm saying nor counters my earlier claim that I personally have not seen a legitimate argument justifying the discrimination based on gender....rather, it's simply an attempt to ignore the issue.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I've yet to hear an argument for allowing SSM that couldn't be applied to polygamy or incest.
    While I dont really care if either of those was legal, I have yet to hear any arguments why they should not. Some may exist, but they havent been examined to the extent that SSM has (that I've seen).
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #323
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Why do we accept the state's ability to say who can and can't marry who? All for a damn tax write off. Ridiculous. But of course...taxation doesn't take any power away from you.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So the question is whether or not there is an argument that such discrimination is substantially related to an important state interest. Going "Well, I don't think it should be judged on that factor" isn't actually an argument against anything I'm saying nor counters my earlier claim that I personally have not seen a legitimate argument justifying the discrimination based on gender....rather, it's simply an attempt to ignore the issue.
    IMO however, there is definitely such state interest. The benefits of marriage extend to more protections for the children in these families, regarding things like custody, adoption rights for both parents, additional stability for the family unit, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #325
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Why do we accept the state's ability to say who can and can't marry who? All for a damn tax write off. Ridiculous. But of course...taxation doesn't take any power away from you.
    Here's another reason (besides that fact that some of us find fighting discrimination important):

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    IMO however, there is definitely such state interest. The benefits of marriage extend to more protections for the children in these families, regarding things like custody, adoption rights for both parents, additional stability for the family unit, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Because I don't believe that current marriage laws protect based on gender. As I've already highlighted in this thread, current marriage laws prohibit women from doing something that men can do. Similarly, current marriage laws prohibit men from doing something that women can do.



    That's not really an argument. Going "I don't think that it should be done on that basis" isn't actually offering a counter to any of the points I've made, it's just saying "I disagree because I disagree".

    It is UNQUESTIONABLE that the law discriminates on the basis of gender. It is unquestionable that the law allows a man to do something a woman can't do, and allows a woman to do something a man can't do. So the question is whether or not there is an argument that such discrimination is substantially related to an important state interest. Going "Well, I don't think it should be judged on that factor" isn't actually an argument against anything I'm saying nor counters my earlier claim that I personally have not seen a legitimate argument justifying the discrimination based on gender....rather, it's simply an attempt to ignore the issue.
    Zyph, the fact that a gay man can marry a straight woman and a straight man can marry a gay woman (if that's your entire point) and so SSM is an EPC Constitutional right may be a novel argument to make but are you sure you want to make it as the foundation of the fight against SSM ban?
    Think about the implications.
    IF SOMETHING EXPLAINS EVERYTHING, IT EXPLAINS NOTHING.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    Zyph, the fact that a gay man can marry a straight woman and a straight man can marry a gay woman (if that's your entire point) and so SSM is an EPC Constitutional right may be a novel argument to make but are you sure you want to make it as the foundation of the fight against SSM ban?
    Think about the implications.
    You still do not understand this. Gay and straight are not mentioned in any marriage laws. Further, it does not have to be a "protected class"(really called suspect classification) to be covered by EPC. Belonging to a suspect class tends to trigger a higher level of review. The highest court to actually comment on the subject was the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled that orientation was a quasi-suspect classification and therefore subject to Intermediate Scrutiny. The Supreme Court did not mention classsification, but it did not need to in that case as DOMA failed under Rational Basis Review.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You still do not understand this. Gay and straight are not mentioned in any marriage laws. Further, it does not have to be a "protected class"(really called suspect classification) to be covered by EPC. Belonging to a suspect class tends to trigger a higher level of review. The highest court to actually comment on the subject was the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled that orientation was a quasi-suspect classification and therefore subject to Intermediate Scrutiny. The Supreme Court did not mention classsification, but it did not need to in that case as DOMA failed under Rational Basis Review.
    Neither is love. Or intercourse. Or reproduction. People marry now for many non-traditional reasons: convenience, benefits, green cards, companionship, etc. Not sure why sexual orientation does. It's still 2 consenting adults.
    Last edited by Lursa; 02-17-15 at 07:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Neither is love. Or intercourse. Or reproduction. People marry now for many non-traditional reasons: convenience, benefits, green cards, companionship, etc. Not sure why sexual orientation does. It's still 2 consenting adults.
    Your post in no way, shape or form had anything whatsoever to do with what I was posting about.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Your post in no way, shape or form had anything whatsoever to do with what I was posting about.
    ok. nevermind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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