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Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

you keep saying this yet none exist solely based on SSM . . not one. . .this is why you can't provide any

people can apply anything they want doesn't mean it will be base on legality, facts or precedence

people argue illegal discrimination is actually legal for many reason doesnt mean it holds water lol

Sure there is! For example, the government shouldn't be involved in choosing favorites when it comes to something personal like marriage. them. Or how about the arguments that two happy parents are better than one as SSM is a better alternative to single parents. That argument can apply to SSM or any of other ways a marriage can happened. You merely lack imagination to see
 
I've yet to hear an argument for allowing SSM that couldn't be applied to polygamy or incest.

That's because you're not reading the arguments for the court decisions. If you did read them you might have an "Ohhhhh...right." moment.
 
Let me sum this up because I'm not going to go over the same points again:

You have a right to be Gay in the US, you do not have the right to Gay Marriage.

That last sentence makes the legal right to marriage a privledge. I just don't think the country is willing to do that, and if gays can't marry why not interracial or interfaith or whatever. About the only thing the right has is the whole marry a dog or kid, which ads red herrings because of consent. Gays having the right to marry doesn't mean you can marry your empty Gatorade bottle, dog or the 6 year old girl who lived down the street. It would take a court challenge which would include proving those above could provide consent. So yeah red herring.
 
1.)Sure there is! For example, the government shouldn't be involved in choosing favorites when it comes to something personal like marriage. them.
2.) Or how about the arguments that two happy parents are better than one as SSM is a better alternative to single parents.
3.) That argument can apply to SSM or any of other ways a marriage can happened.
4.) You merely lack imagination to see
well you just proved my point
1.) thats not a legality based argument its a empty opinion, can you tell me what cases was won on e the argument "choosing of favorites"
2.) see #1
3.) yes it can but again thats not based on legality or any legal precedence
4.) wrong again i simply understand the topic and how low and rights work

random arguments are meaningless unless they can be founded in law, rights and constitutionality
 
That's because you're not reading the arguments for the court decisions. If you did read them you might have an "Ohhhhh...right." moment.

ding ding ding ding we have a winner
 
Are you a Supreme Court Justice? No and that makes what you think irrelevant.

Then why reply man? Besides, what do I care, didn't you hear? Cephus let me know that nobody voted for Republicans but against Democrats which only means one thing baby... Libertarian take over baby!

 
That's because you're not reading the arguments for the court decisions. If you did read them you might have an "Ohhhhh...right." moment.

I've seen them, and yet to see how they couldn't be carried over. Voyager was saying what I was trying to convey, that we're not talking about rights but a privliedge. We haven't seen the court decisions yet because up until very recently, marriage was pretty strict on it's definition. Times are a changing, so we'll see I suppose. In the end, I'm for SSM but I just see it opening doors to other things. We'll see though.

That last sentence makes the legal right to marriage a privledge. I just don't think the country is willing to do that, and if gays can't marry why not interracial or interfaith or whatever. About the only thing the right has is the whole marry a dog or kid, which ads red herrings because of consent. Gays having the right to marry doesn't mean you can marry your empty Gatorade bottle, dog or the 6 year old girl who lived down the street. It would take a court challenge which would include proving those above could provide consent. So yeah red herring.

I feel like we shouldn't agree but I think we do. I could be wrong though.

well you just proved my point
1.) thats not a legality based argument its a empty opinion, can you tell me what cases was won on e the argument "choosing of favorites"
2.) see #1
3.) yes it can but again thats not based on legality or any legal precedence
4.) wrong again i simply understand the topic and how low and rights work

random arguments are meaningless unless they can be founded in law, rights and constitutionality

Whatever you say J, we'll see.

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I've seen them, and yet to see how they couldn't be carried over. Voyager was saying what I was trying to convey, that we're not talking about rights but a privliedge. We haven't seen the court decisions yet because up until very recently, marriage was pretty strict on it's definition. Times are a changing, so we'll see I suppose. In the end, I'm for SSM but I just see it opening doors to other things. We'll see though.



I feel like we shouldn't agree but I think we do. I could be wrong though.

The whole hallmark of marriage is consent though. I don't think that will ever go away.
 
Add Jindal to the list
Jindal won't 'evolve' on same-sex marriage - CNN.com

he wants a constitutional amendment in favor of bans lol, does he also plan on removing the 14th? lol

If some of these Right Wing nut jobs like ALSC Justice Roy Moore had their way, that's exactly what they'd do! He gave a heated interview on CNN recently where he flat out said he wouldn't have supported the SCOUS' ruling on Dred Scott nor Brown -vs- Board of Education which overturned Plessy -vs- Ferguson. While I get his state's rights arguments, I totally disagree with him on moral grounds, on principle and from a federal constitutional standpoint.
 
If some of these Right Wing nut jobs like ALSC Justice Roy Moore had their way, that's exactly what they'd do! He gave a heated interview on CNN recently where he flat out said he wouldn't have supported the SCOUS' ruling on Dred Scott nor Brown -vs- Board of Education which overturned Plessy -vs- Ferguson. While I get his state's rights arguments, I totally disagree with him on moral grounds, on principle and from a federal constitutional standpoint.

There not nut jobs, unless one of these guys comes out and tells me that he wouldn't go to a restaurant that serves black, then all you can you accuse him over is being an advocate of states rights. I'm not saying states rights is "right" but what I am saying is that just because he believes that, doesn't mean he's racist.
 
Butchering of English grammar aside, I'm actually semi-okay with this and here's why: essentially what he is arguing for is to protect a state's ability choose if it wants to allow SSM in the state or not. Mainly because the way the electorate is going anyways, even if said bill was passed, eventually every state will legalize SSM anyways.

He can argue till Kingdom come...but when the courts rule that a state does not have the right to ban marriage based on sexual orientation...a federal law will not trump that ruling.

By the time Cruz gets this legislation passed [when Hell freezes over]...the legislation would be moot.

And if a miracle should happen and the SC rules states do have the right to ban SSM...then one more time...Cruz' legislation would be rendered moot.
 
It could be that they are standing up for their sincere belief that marriage is between one man and one woman.

Although not addressed to me, I'll take the issue on.

I understand this state's rights argument, but here's the rub.

Even when federal law goes against our innate values of "freedom of choice, freedom of religion (even if it means you're an atheist), the pursuit of happiness and equal protection" as certain aspects of the DOMA clearly does, you have to take a step back and look at those state laws that trample over these same values. The biggest issue here w/SSM is equal protection mainly because simple things like hospital visits or living wills as agreed upon by homosexual partners are being denied. Moreover, when you look at the division of property rights or death benefits for same-sex couples, even federal law denies these such benefits. So, there are clear areas that need to be cleaned up where state and federal laws converge on the SSM issue. In some cases, changing "spouse" to "beneficiary" would go a long way to mitigating alot of the nuance. But in other situation, such as inheritance and property rights, the issues aren't so clear.

For the record, I'm a Christian and I do believe that homosexuality is a sin. But as two saying go: "Hate the sin, not the sinner," and "You can't legislate morality."
 
It could be that they are standing up for their sincere belief that marriage is between one man and one woman.

I to believe that marriage is between one man and one woman...What does that have to do with the Constitution? When did America become a Sharia law nation in which religious beliefs trump the US Constitution.
 
Butchering of English grammar aside, I'm actually semi-okay with this and here's why: essentially what he is arguing for is to protect a state's ability choose if it wants to allow SSM in the state or not. Mainly because the way the electorate is going anyways, even if said bill was passed, eventually every state will legalize SSM anyways.

Why exactly should any American have to wait for "eventually" to exercise their constitutionally protected right to marry?

And there are serious legal issues raises when you try to extend the 14th amendment to protect legal agreements (which is really what SSM is all about).

It protects marriage. It has for decades.

It opens up the doors for all sorts of other issues like incest and polygamy.

No, it doesn't. Those are completely separate issues. Just like interracial marriage didn't lead to incest, same sex marriage doesn't either.

I'm not saying that loving someone of the same sex is a choice, but to enter into a legal agreement that says such is. See the difference?

And you have no right to deny others the choice to enter into that agreement.

It could be that they are standing up for their sincere belief that marriage is between one man and one woman.

Laws aren't based on beliefs. Constitutional rights aren't stripped from people because of someone's belief.

The reason it wouldn't apply to women or race is because you are judging them based solely on who they, not what their doing.

That is not at all how this body of law works, and the discrimination against gays is entirely about who they are. The same way that keeping black children out of specific schools isn't "what they are doing", keeping gay couples out of marriage isn't. It isn't the driving that's being discriminated against when someone is harassed and arrested for "driving while black."

You feel, and I think many on our side erroneously think so as well, that many of those who oppose SSM do so because they simply hate gays.

A lot of you seem to. The loudest voices in the anti-rights movement express a lot of hatred. Some of the rest of you dress it up in slippery slopes and fallaceous arguments about separation of powers and "the will of the people."

What they fear most is what will happen when you start assigning equal rights to legal arrangements and that's all that marriage (straight or gay) is. Once you start assigning those protections to legal arrangements, then you start to move into the territory where stuff like polygamy can be recognized under the law and offered the same treatment as other marriages.

That is all that marriage is. That's all marriage has ever been. You can assign your marriage whatever other things you want. You can feel that it has religious significance or whatever emotional status you like. That's personal and has nothing to do with the law.

Meanwhile, if you're so afraid of polygamy, make arguments against that, not against same sex marriage.

Because really, the only reason we don't allow Polygamy today is because it's a social taboo, as was SSM for the longest time. Once you remove the taboo, you realize there's nothing to stop extending legal protections to them.

So then why are you so afraid of legal polygamy?

Let me sum this up because I'm not going to go over the same points again:

You have a right to be Gay in the US, you do not have the right to Gay Marriage.

No, you have a right to be gay, and the right to marry. Therefore, you have the right to a same sex marriage.

Strange definition of Liberal. But regardless, honestly the government shouldn't be in the position of defining marriage in the first place.

Then who should? Churches? You do know that many Americans aren't Christians and have no desire to be. All religious institutions? Many Americans aren't religious, and religion has no place in law. So tell me, who defines marriage if not the law?

Again though, it's really not about discriminating gays as it is preventing a slippery slope where other doors are then opened.

Bull. You can repeat this over and over and it will never become true.

Because nobody voted for Republicans, they voted against Democrats.

And because barely anyone showed up to vote at all.
 
If some of these Right Wing nut jobs like ALSC Justice Roy Moore had their way, that's exactly what they'd do! He gave a heated interview on CNN recently where he flat out said he wouldn't have supported the SCOUS' ruling on Dred Scott nor Brown -vs- Board of Education which overturned Plessy -vs- Ferguson. While I get his state's rights arguments, I totally disagree with him on moral grounds, on principle and from a federal constitutional standpoint.

well theres extremists everywhere thats for sure and I support states rights also I just simply understand what they actually are unlike some of these other people. State doesnt trump the Constitution or individual rights
 
Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage - CNN.com



wow what a waste of time and money, also nothing like making sure you wont be president either lol Equal rights is coming bigots . .. give it up

again im not saying this one topic SHOULD decide who could be president but any candidate that comes out against equal rights and they make it "PART OF THEIR CAMPAIGN AND RUNNING PLATFORM" is sure to lose lol

its just the way politics will be in 2016

lastly traditional marriage is in no danger by equal rights, its a made up subjective thing, it wont be impacted at all

next "the obama administration forcing it"? It doesnt get any dumber than that. :lamo

good lord
the war is over but its entertaining seeing the last desperate attempts of bigotry, it shows peoples true colors

Regulation of marriage is not a Federal responsibility constitutionally. I don't oppose gay marriage but the authority to regulate it belongs with the states. Gay marriage is also not the leading problem of our day and too much time is wasted on it.
 
Regulation of marriage is not a Federal responsibility constitutionally. I don't oppose gay marriage but the authority to regulate it belongs with the states. Gay marriage is also not the leading problem of our day and too much time is wasted on it.

Correct, states do have the historical authority to regulate marriage...just as they do not have a constitutional authority to violate the rights of their residents in that regulation.
 
Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage - CNN.com



wow what a waste of time and money, also nothing like making sure you wont be president either lol Equal rights is coming bigots . .. give it up

again im not saying this one topic SHOULD decide who could be president but any candidate that comes out against equal rights and they make it "PART OF THEIR CAMPAIGN AND RUNNING PLATFORM" is sure to lose lol

its just the way politics will be in 2016

lastly traditional marriage is in no danger by equal rights, its a made up subjective thing, it wont be impacted at all

next "the obama administration forcing it"? It doesnt get any dumber than that. :lamo

good lord
the war is over but its entertaining seeing the last desperate attempts of bigotry, it shows peoples true colors

Posturing for Iowa and a Santorum style campaign to get him a position as a conservative party elder and book deal after his campaign inevitably loses.
 
What we are seeing is the last refuge of this political fight. It does not matter how many polls we bring up showing strong support for marriage equality, there will be a sizable group across the nation that pushes for legislation like what Cruz is proposing here. Predictably we still have plenty of voters in the SE especially that see this as a State's Rights issue as a potential last fight. Think, similarity to how this fight occurred out in California after the Proposition 8 vote.

My issue at this point is political capital. With the recent success in gaining control of the 114th Congress it could be argued well that the intentions of the voter was to handle economic, some domestic spending, and foreign matters. There is not much evidence that the social barometer of the nation all of a sudden switched direction looking for the 114th Congress to introduce social conservative legislation. But to appease constituents it appears they will try anyway. My worry is these days that is how Democrats can bait Republicans right out of office, at stake is 2016 with Hillary in the wait with whatever 115th Congress she faces.

If Republicans want to stay politically relevant going forward they are going to have to adapt to the social barometer of the nation. Support for marriage equality is doing nothing but going up and the number of States that have fallen one way or another to allow gay marriage is in the majority. Cruz's actions seem to me to be another "prop 8" vote. That was done right before California courts could decide on a few challenges, just as Cruz's proposal is right before the Supreme Court can decide on a few challenges.

The backlash could be enough to compromise Republican momentum headed into 2016, and the last thing we need to do is hand Hillary a bigger win and potentially with a more complicit 115th Congress.

Fantastic post.
 
1.)Regulation of marriage is not a Federal responsibility constitutionally.
2.) I don't oppose gay marriage but the authority to regulate it belongs with the states.
3.) Gay marriage is also not the leading problem of our day and too much time is wasted on it.

1.) true, good thing they are not regulating it
2.) true, and they are free to regulate it
neither of those are an issue :shrug:

the fed is enforcing the constitution and protecting individual rights, when the states make a regulation that violate rights they are over stepping thier power. Thats the issue and what is factually happening with the banning and why the states are bign corrected. The system is working just like it is supposed too.

3.) equal rights will always be a large issue but I do agree to much time is wasted on it, bigots need to simply stop infringing on it
 
Correct, states do have the historical authority to regulate marriage...just as they do not have a constitutional authority to violate the rights of their residents in that regulation.

That kind of tortured logic is why the constitution has turned into a joke. If you twist it like a pretzel you can do anything you want with the all powerful Federal government.
 
That kind of tortured logic is why the constitution has turned into a joke. If you twist it like a pretzel you can do anything you want with the all powerful Federal government.

nothing tortured about that "logic" its in fact how it works :shrug:
theres nothing about that that is "all powerful federal government" lol
 
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