Page 3 of 46 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 456

Thread: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

  1. #21
    The Dude
    Kobie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    42,861

    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    It could be that they are standing up for their sincere belief that marriage is between one man and one woman.
    Sure, it could be, if one was so naive as to think the vast majority of these guys aren't craven panderers to the extremes of their respective bases.

    Being against SSM is one thing. Wanting it hard-wired into the Constitution, against the wishes of a growing portion of the American people, just seems ludicrous to me.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  2. #22
    The Dude
    Kobie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    42,861

    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You're not listening to what I'm saying. The reason it wouldn't apply to women or race is because you are judging them based solely on who they, not what their doing. You feel, and I think many on our side erroneously think so as well, that many of those who oppose SSM do so because they simply hate gays. This isn't some backwater African government that wants to ban any expression or support for homosexuality. What they fear most is what will happen when you start assigning equal rights to legal arrangements and that's all that marriage (straight or gay) is. Once you start assigning those protections to legal arrangements, then you start to move into the territory where stuff like polygamy can be recognized under the law and offered the same treatment as other marriages.
    If all parties consent, why shouldn't polygamy be legal? Marriage is a contractual agreement. Why should people be prevented from entering into such an agreement?

    That said, claiming A inexorably leads to B is the textbook "slippery slope" logical fallacy.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    NE WI.
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 03:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,029

    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I certainly don't think he's an idiot. I do think he's soulless, shameless and slimy.
    `
    True.....uncompassionate, insensitive, heartless...lacking any kind of nobility.

  4. #24
    Guru
    Hamster Buddha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 06:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,675

    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    If all parties consent, why shouldn't polygamy be legal? Marriage is a contractual agreement. Why should people be prevented from entering into such an agreement?

    That said, claiming A inexorably leads to B is the textbook "slippery slope" logical fallacy.
    I'm not sure how it's a fallacy when you validate the point in the previous line...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    `
    True.....uncompassionate, insensitive, heartless...lacking any kind of nobility.
    Haters gotta hate I suppose.

  5. #25
    The Dude
    Kobie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    42,861

    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I'm not sure how it's a fallacy when you validate the point in the previous line...



    Haters gotta hate I suppose.
    I'm not claiming that SSM would invariably lead to polygamy. I'm just questioning why polygamy should be illegal. Although I will say that slippery slope argument isn't nearly as offensive as when people claim it will lead to legal bestiality, pedophilia, or people marrying their appliances.

    Claiming that legal SSM will invariably lead to legal polygamy is like claiming legal marijuana will invariably lead to legal PCP.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  6. #26
    Guru
    Hamster Buddha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 06:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,675

    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I'm not claiming that SSM would invariably lead to polygamy. I'm just questioning why polygamy should be illegal.

    Claiming that legal SSM will invariably lead to legal polygamy is like claiming legal marijuana will invariably lead to legal PCP.
    It's not the same. First off, let's address the question you asked, "Why shouldn't Polygamy be legal". The answer is that it really should. It's just a legal agreement between consenting adults, and that's all that SSM has really been about (sans the whole cake thing which was preposterous). Ultimately, homosexuals want to be treated the same as heterosexuals, in terms of legalities at least, yes? There's nothing in that argument that can't then be applied to Polygamy or a host of others.

    And what makes this different from the drug argument is that the same arguments for one, cannot be applied at this time to the other. I mean, at this moment we're just getting a feel of what legalizing marijuana will do. We don't know have a hard grasp of the consequences for what that brings. If this whole experiment blows up in our faces and turns out to be a bad idea, than nothing else ever gets legalized. I don't see how we could ever look back at SSM being legal and say that was a bad idea, see what I'm saying?

  7. #27
    A sinister place...
    OrphanSlug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Last Seen
    08-08-17 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,860

    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    What we are seeing is the last refuge of this political fight. It does not matter how many polls we bring up showing strong support for marriage equality, there will be a sizable group across the nation that pushes for legislation like what Cruz is proposing here. Predictably we still have plenty of voters in the SE especially that see this as a State's Rights issue as a potential last fight. Think, similarity to how this fight occurred out in California after the Proposition 8 vote.

    My issue at this point is political capital. With the recent success in gaining control of the 114th Congress it could be argued well that the intentions of the voter was to handle economic, some domestic spending, and foreign matters. There is not much evidence that the social barometer of the nation all of a sudden switched direction looking for the 114th Congress to introduce social conservative legislation. But to appease constituents it appears they will try anyway. My worry is these days that is how Democrats can bait Republicans right out of office, at stake is 2016 with Hillary in the wait with whatever 115th Congress she faces.

    If Republicans want to stay politically relevant going forward they are going to have to adapt to the social barometer of the nation. Support for marriage equality is doing nothing but going up and the number of States that have fallen one way or another to allow gay marriage is in the majority. Cruz's actions seem to me to be another "prop 8" vote. That was done right before California courts could decide on a few challenges, just as Cruz's proposal is right before the Supreme Court can decide on a few challenges.

    The backlash could be enough to compromise Republican momentum headed into 2016, and the last thing we need to do is hand Hillary a bigger win and potentially with a more complicit 115th Congress.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

  8. #28
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,761

    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You're not listening to what I'm saying. The reason it wouldn't apply to women or race is because you are judging them based solely on who they, not what their doing. You feel, and I think many on our side erroneously think so as well, that many of those who oppose SSM do so because they simply hate gays. This isn't some backwater African government that wants to ban any expression or support for homosexuality. What they fear most is what will happen when you start assigning equal rights to legal arrangements and that's all that marriage (straight or gay) is. Once you start assigning those protections to legal arrangements, then you start to move into the territory where stuff like polygamy can be recognized under the law and offered the same treatment as other marriages.
    No i get it, its just that fear is irrational and wrong. There is nothing about equal rights that leads to that nor does any of that have the power to make all marriage just legal arrangements.

    thats the whole thing why traditional marriage isnt in danger, a marriage is what you want it to be, if a person wants thier subjective definition of what a traditional marriage is thats what they have

    protecting equal rights is nothing new so the fear is irrational and silly and it certainly has no logical basis to deny equal rights . . .
    Polygamy would be a NEW right that has nothing to do with marriage as it is now, polygamy wont happen because of gay rights if it happens it will happen simply because people fight for it. THeres no arguments for polygamy solely based on gay rights.

    So why the fear, what is it based on rationally and using legality that ties to equal rights for gays?

    why this NEW fear now? why didnt it exist for equal rights for women, minorities etc
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

  9. #29
    Guru
    Hamster Buddha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 06:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,675

    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    No i get it, its just that fear is irrational and wrong. There is nothing about equal rights that leads to that nor does any of that have the power to make all marriage just legal arrangements.

    thats the whole thing why traditional marriage isnt in danger, a marriage is what you want it to be, if a person wants thier subjective definition of what a traditional marriage is thats what they have

    protecting equal rights is nothing new so the fear is irrational and silly and it certainly has no logical basis to deny equal rights . . .
    Polygamy would be a NEW right that has nothing to do with marriage as it is now, polygamy wont happen because of gay rights if it happens it will happen simply because people fight for it. THeres no arguments for polygamy solely based on gay rights.

    So why the fear, what is it based on rationally and using legality that ties to equal rights for gays?

    why this NEW fear now? why didnt it exist for equal rights for women, minorities etc
    SSM has never been about making sure homosexuals weren't discriminated, but about allowing them access to the same legal protections and goodies that heterosexual couples have. And that's what any marriage, whether it be straight or gay is: a legal agreement between two people that you have to take to the courthouse. And there's no argument that you can give that wouldn't also apply to polygamy, which is why many oppose them. Because really, the only reason we don't allow Polygamy today is because it's a social taboo, as was SSM for the longest time. Once you remove the taboo, you realize there's nothing to stop extending legal protections to them.

    And the reason it didn't exist for women or minorities is obvious; you don't go to a courthouse to become black or a woman.

  10. #30
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,761

    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    It could be that they are standing up for their sincere belief that marriage is between one man and one woman.
    thier sincere belief doesn't matter to rights

    people had sincere beliefs that women and blacks were lessers too and that there shouldn't be interracial marriage etc etc but their feelings didnt matter either

    so again the amazement of ignorance is still present, sincere beliefs doesnt change that amazement in fact for me it amplifies it
    sincere bigotry in 2015 is sad and amazing at the same time
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

Page 3 of 46 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •