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Thread: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

  1. #211
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Let's put his marriage up for a vote instead
    You realize you'd lose in a landslide right?

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Marriage is more than a legal agreement though. And slippery slope is still a logical fallacy. If it is opened by allowing same sex couples to marry, then it was already opened by allowing opposite sex couples to marry and taking on any marriage case to determine constitutionality of state laws, including Loving, Redhail, and Turner.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Again, this is wrong. Legally, making more than one person another person's legal spouse causes major legal issues, including which spouse would be the legally "closest" relative? How much legal entitlement does each spouse have to shared assets? How much legal responsibility/rights does each spouse have to any children within the marriage? These are questions that have already been handled with single spouse a piece marriages.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There is really no such thing as "gay marriage" legally. There is only "marriage" And so long as two people of the opposite sex can legally make each other spouses, then it violates equal protection guaranteed by the 14th to not allow two people of the same sex to make each other spouses legally. And since marriage is the only method available in the US to make people legal spouses, that means there is a right to same sex couples to marry so long as opposite sex couples can marry.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And this is the problem, you expect an argument to allow same sex marriage. That isn't how it works. The Constitution says that the government must give an argument for why something should not be allowed, and those arguments are different (at least some of them when it comes to polygamy). There is legitimate arguments connected to preventing a person from having multiple legal spouses that in no way apply when speaking about trying to prevent people from having a same sex spouse. Legally, logistically, there is no difference for anyone to have a same sex spouse than there is to have an opposite sex spouse because the sexes are legally considered the same under the law in everything dealing with spouses. There is a huge legal and logistical difference between having one spouse and having more than one spouse, due to how we treat spouses and their kinship status under the laws of the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Then you missed the 9th Amendment, which pretty much says just because something is not specifically listed in the Constitution, does not mean it isn't a right.
    You really couldn't of summed that all up in one post? Sad thing is, I actually missed on of your posts...

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You realize you'd lose in a landslide right?
    Maybe, but would Cruz be willing to put his right to marry his wife up for a popular vote?

    Also, too....Marriage | Gallup Historical Trends

    55/42 in favor of SSM.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Maybe, but would Cruz be willing to put his right to marry his wife up for a popular vote?

    Also, too....Marriage | Gallup Historical Trends

    55/42 in favor of SSM.
    Just because people are in favor of SSM, doesn't mean they now oppose traditional marriage Jasper...

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Just because people are in favor of SSM, doesn't mean they now oppose traditional marriage Jasper...
    OK, fine, but it was a simple point - how many of his rights will Cruz or you agree to put up for a popular vote?

    Maybe this will help:

    Rhetorical question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, fine, but it was a simple point - how many of his rights will Cruz or you agree to put up for a popular vote?

    Maybe this will help:

    Rhetorical question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Just curious, and this really isn't a rhetorical question but do you think we should have topics such as polygamy go up to a popular vote?

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Just because people are in favor of SSM, doesn't mean they now oppose traditional marriage Jasper...
    ...huh? Does anyone who supports same-sex marriage oppose traditional marriage by that logic?

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Just curious, and this really isn't a rhetorical question but do you think we should have topics such as polygamy go up to a popular vote?
    Actually no. Same as incest. It should be simple enough to produce a reason(s) to ban polygamy/incest that meets some legitimate state purpose. If not, then let those bans go by the wayside.

    Also the same sort of question as whether Islam or Buddhism or the worship of the FSM (assuming that's legitimate for this purpose) should enjoy the same religious protections as Christianity.

  9. #219
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by LaylaWindu View Post
    No they work together and when one oversteps the system fixes itself. Unfortunately sometimes this takes a very long time.
    I don't see how movies or public opinion play any role because neither matter. What are you talking about?
    I'm suggesting, actually more like claiming, that entertainment & pop culture can influence and sway popular opinion on subjects like SSM, and subsequently polls on the subject change.
    When polls on a subject change, politicians will change with it if they think they have to in order to survive.
    When politicians change, who they gather around them changes and that includes judicial appointees.
    And that's what ultimately matters.
    So, yes, it may end up that the Constitution was not given more than lip service in order to decide SSM.
    Years ago we were told over and over that the Constitution was a Living Document.
    That was meant to convince you that it could mean whatever you want it to mean.
    That's still going on.


    As to your first point, since the Constitution doesn't provide a Federal definition of marriage, would the 10th Amendment apply?
    IF SOMETHING EXPLAINS EVERYTHING, IT EXPLAINS NOTHING.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    States have never had the right to violate the consitution, and the 10th is clear on that: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." See the part in bold. That covers the 14th.



    Not really, no. Rule of law will determine the outcome. Essentially, if states can define why it has a legitimate reason to deny SSM couples getting married(at the least, it is possible Intermediate Scrutiny would apply, especially if the justices buy the argument that SSM bans are a form of gender discrimination), then they can define marriage in such a way as to not allow SSM.
    That is a legal question, not a popularity question.
    You're not that nave.
    See #219
    IF SOMETHING EXPLAINS EVERYTHING, IT EXPLAINS NOTHING.

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