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Thread: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

  1. #171
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    No, that's what I'm saying. SSM is an issue, must like drugs incidentally, that the nation has been softening on for about a decade. And there are serious legal issues raises when you try to extend the 14th amendment to protect legal agreements (which is really what SSM is all about). It opens up the doors for all sorts of other issues like incest and polygamy. I'm not saying that loving someone of the same sex is a choice, but to enter into a legal agreement that says such is. See the difference?
    Marriage is more than a legal agreement though. And slippery slope is still a logical fallacy. If it is opened by allowing same sex couples to marry, then it was already opened by allowing opposite sex couples to marry and taking on any marriage case to determine constitutionality of state laws, including Loving, Redhail, and Turner.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #172
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You're not listening to what I'm saying. The reason it wouldn't apply to women or race is because you are judging them based solely on who they, not what their doing. You feel, and I think many on our side erroneously think so as well, that many of those who oppose SSM do so because they simply hate gays. This isn't some backwater African government that wants to ban any expression or support for homosexuality. What they fear most is what will happen when you start assigning equal rights to legal arrangements and that's all that marriage (straight or gay) is. Once you start assigning those protections to legal arrangements, then you start to move into the territory where stuff like polygamy can be recognized under the law and offered the same treatment as other marriages.
    This is actually wrong. Interracial couples, the Lovings specifically, were being judged on their choosing to be with someone of a different race, not on their actual individual races. It is just as much a choice to want a person of a different race to be considered your legal spouse as it is to want someone of the same sex to be your legal spouse.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #173
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    SSM has never been about making sure homosexuals weren't discriminated, but about allowing them access to the same legal protections and goodies that heterosexual couples have. And that's what any marriage, whether it be straight or gay is: a legal agreement between two people that you have to take to the courthouse. And there's no argument that you can give that wouldn't also apply to polygamy, which is why many oppose them. Because really, the only reason we don't allow Polygamy today is because it's a social taboo, as was SSM for the longest time. Once you remove the taboo, you realize there's nothing to stop extending legal protections to them.

    And the reason it didn't exist for women or minorities is obvious; you don't go to a courthouse to become black or a woman.
    Again, this is wrong. Legally, making more than one person another person's legal spouse causes major legal issues, including which spouse would be the legally "closest" relative? How much legal entitlement does each spouse have to shared assets? How much legal responsibility/rights does each spouse have to any children within the marriage? These are questions that have already been handled with single spouse a piece marriages.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #174
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Let me sum this up because I'm not going to go over the same points again:

    You have a right to be Gay in the US, you do not have the right to Gay Marriage.
    There is really no such thing as "gay marriage" legally. There is only "marriage" And so long as two people of the opposite sex can legally make each other spouses, then it violates equal protection guaranteed by the 14th to not allow two people of the same sex to make each other spouses legally. And since marriage is the only method available in the US to make people legal spouses, that means there is a right to same sex couples to marry so long as opposite sex couples can marry.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #175
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    God defined marriage when he made Adam and Eve. He sure didn't make Adam and Steve.
    I am pretty sure he did. Otherwise there would be no gay guys named Steve.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    From what I gather Cruz's bill is focused on states rights. If states stop issuing marriage licenses, what then?
    Full Faith and Credit Clause. Pesky Constitution makes anti gay bigotry rather difficult.

  7. #177
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I've yet to hear an argument for allowing SSM that couldn't be applied to polygamy or incest.
    And this is the problem, you expect an argument to allow same sex marriage. That isn't how it works. The Constitution says that the government must give an argument for why something should not be allowed, and those arguments are different (at least some of them when it comes to polygamy). There is legitimate arguments connected to preventing a person from having multiple legal spouses that in no way apply when speaking about trying to prevent people from having a same sex spouse. Legally, logistically, there is no difference for anyone to have a same sex spouse than there is to have an opposite sex spouse because the sexes are legally considered the same under the law in everything dealing with spouses. There is a huge legal and logistical difference between having one spouse and having more than one spouse, due to how we treat spouses and their kinship status under the laws of the US.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #178
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Full Faith and Credit Clause. Pesky Constitution makes anti gay bigotry rather difficult.
    What?

  9. #179
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I want them to have the ability, it's clearly a form of discrimination for government to favor one form of marriage over the other. It's just the consequences that we'll have to deal with that makes it less savory..

    Marriage is a right? Must of missed that in the Constitution.
    Then you missed the 9th Amendment, which pretty much says just because something is not specifically listed in the Constitution, does not mean it isn't a right.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #180
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What?
    Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution, known as the "Full Faith and Credit Clause", addresses the duties that states within the United States have to respect the "public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state."

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