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Thread: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Incest isn't hard - there are well documented health risks associated with it. And if it's between parent and child, obvious issues of control, coercion, etc.

    Someone against polygamy will have to make that argument - I'm agnostic so haven't given it much thought or any study. If six women want to marry Romney.... whatever.... Not my life, not my choice is my initial reaction.
    I would hate to see a nation where one day incest would be allowed, however, it does need to be pointed out that the risks associated with incest have been forever and always overstated. Also, isn't it the liberal tenant that a person, man or woman, is in control of their own bodies, and the decisions they make are theirs and theirs only? If a daughter and a father wanted to marry each other after the age of consent, and decided to make babies, what legal precedence allows the government to interfere? Well you could say, well there is a statistical chance that the baby being born would have defects, but then again, that argument can be made for a whole host of natural occurrences among men and women. We don't say that people over the age of 40 can't procreate, BUT we know that statistically their chances of having a child with health problems goes up dramatically. The issue is informed consent. If someone wants to take the chance, who are we to stop them?


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) it doesnt seem you do from some of your claims
    2.) minorities arent a special class
    3.) just equal protections
    4.) correct
    5.) nor is it needed
    6.) they dont have legislation now nor is it needed, they were always protected under equal rights people simply denied them that protection
    7.) what other protected minorities? there are none this is a perfect example of why you dont understand rights
    8.) so is race sometimes and so is religion and religion
    9.) 100% false, another example of how you dont understand rights. since the illegal discrimination is against sexual orientation, its not needed for them to come out.??????
    10.) and again like the fact i pointed out, there doesnt have to be an activity
    11.) yes they are but the issue is you are pushing some of this as fact and it simply is not, its 100% wrong
    12.) fix what crap? the fix is easy and its already on its way, equal rights . . . .

    how would you fix it?
    Most of this is nonsense however I'll address one issue in particular. I've owned rental homes. I've refused to rent to people who I didn't find to be credit worthy and also to people who I was not comfortable with. If however I refused to rent to a person because I knew they were gay, I would wind up in court. Truth is that most gays are probably good tenants. However if the person I refused to rent to didn't claim to be part of the class, but was gay he would have no standing to sue me for discrimination. That's the way it works, sorry if you don't get it.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    1.)Most of this is nonsense
    2.)however I'll address one issue in particular. I've owned rental homes. I've refused to rent to people who I didn't find to be credit worthy and also to people who I was not comfortable with.
    3.) If however I refused to rent to a person because I knew they were gay, I would wind up in court.
    4.) Truth is that most gays are probably good tenants.
    5.) However if the person I refused to rent to didn't claim to be part of the class, but was gay he would have no standing to sue me for discrimination.
    6.) That's the way it works, sorry if you don't get it.
    1.) deflection is common when a poster cant back up thier claims or thier claims have been factually proven wrong, calling it nonsense doesnt make it so, if you think somethign is nonsense step up and prove it
    2.) and thats your right
    3.) 100% correct
    4.) im sure they follow the avg
    5.) again false, discrimination is also based on PERCEPTION . . . .if you didnt rent to that person based on your perceived gender, religion, race, sexual orientation etc you could still end up in court

    the action is YOURS not theirs, YOU have to illegal discriminate . . . . they dont have to do anything, cases like this are already on the books

    6.) actually law and facts prove otherwise and im sorry you in fact, dont get it.

    let me know if there any other confusions i can clear up for you

    have you figured out the part where you false claimed there are protected minority groups even though there are none? i can help you with that next if you like?
    Last edited by AGENT J; 02-12-15 at 04:55 PM.
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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    There is no "slippery slope" and there is no reason to think that current bans on incest and polygamy will be declared unconstitutional. I'm afraid those that believe so are just showing their bigotry against SSM.
    Really? It takes no thinking to dismiss arguments that irk you as motivated by bigotry. Anyone could just as easily speculate that people who take your position are just cheerleading for homosexuals, while showing their bigotry against people who want to enter into incestuous, bigamous, polygamous, or other forms of non-traditional marriage.

    I notice you don't explain, for example, if the Supreme Court had decreed a constitutional right for homosexuals to marry each other, what legitimate interest a state would any longer have in prohibiting a homosexual marriage between first cousins while allowing it between second cousins. Or, for that matter, what legitimate state interest would be served by prohibiting even more closely incestuous homosexual marriages. Maybe you are concerned about the increased risk of genetic defects in the offspring of homosexuals who are so closely related.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Wait, are you saying there's over 200 Libertarians in DC right now!?!?!

    Very few people are crazy enough to vote for libertarians. Thank goodness.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) deflection is common when a poster cant back up thier claims or thier claims have been factually proven wrong, calling it nonsense doesnt make it so, if you think somethign is nonsense step up and prove it
    2.) and thats your right
    3.) 100% correct
    4.) im sure they follow the avg
    5.) again false, discrimination is also based on PERCEPTION . . . .if you didnt rent to that person based on your perceived gender, religion, race, sexual orientation etc you could still end up in court

    the action is YOURS not theirs, YOU have to illegal discriminate . . . . they dont have to do anything, cases like this are already on the books

    6.) actually law and facts prove otherwise and im sorry you in fact, dont get it.

    let me know if there any other confusions i can clear up for you

    have you figured out the part where you false claimed there are protected minority groups even though there are none? i can help you with that next if you like?
    You haven't cleared up anything. I think you are wrong about most of what you've written and because I don't respect your opinion I don't want or need your help. Your condesention is outstanding however.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Yes they can regulate, and they do without objection: Age, # of existing spouses, & blood relation.
    `
    True that.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    The whole concept of states' rights is riiculous to me. States don't have rights, people do. Like the right to enter into contract and the freedom of association.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I would hate to see a nation where one day incest would be allowed, however, it does need to be pointed out that the risks associated with incest have been forever and always overstated. Also, isn't it the liberal tenant that a person, man or woman, is in control of their own bodies, and the decisions they make are theirs and theirs only? If a daughter and a father wanted to marry each other after the age of consent, and decided to make babies, what legal precedence allows the government to interfere? Well you could say, well there is a statistical chance that the baby being born would have defects, but then again, that argument can be made for a whole host of natural occurrences among men and women. We don't say that people over the age of 40 can't procreate, BUT we know that statistically their chances of having a child with health problems goes up dramatically. The issue is informed consent. If someone wants to take the chance, who are we to stop them?


    Tim-
    OK, that's fine. Then the people who want to marry their daughters can challenge state laws, take them to court, all the way to the Supreme Court. Good luck to them. They'll need it but if the state can't articulate a compelling reason to ban incest, the state deserves to lose. "I'm against incest" isn't enough to strip those adults of their right to marry their consenting, adult daughters. Same thing with polygamy. If opponents have no compelling basis to prohibit polygamy, THEY will lose and Mormons might soon get the right to marry multiple women back. That's the way it works.

    The reason SSM keeps winning is the state cannot produce any compelling reason to deny gay couples the right to get married. That's the burden the state needs to meet and they can't do it beyond citing tradition or the Bible.

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    Re: Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

    Are they hoping to bring back the bans on inter-racial marriage? Unless the Supreme Court reverses the Loving decision, it will take a constitutional amendment to allow states to impose discriminatory marriage laws.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 02-12-15 at 06:12 PM.

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