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Thread: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students [W:43, 109]

  1. #121
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    Re: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And that person would be wrong. Many communists countries don't care if people have beliefs, plus their motivation to kill opposers is not based on tenets of atheism, because there are none, but political motivations for power and maintaining that power.
    Well, let's see what the experts say:

    "Religion is the opium of the people,' said Karl Marx. It is the task of the Communist Party to make this truth comprehensible to the widest possible circles of the labouring masses. It is the task of the party to impress firmly upon the minds of the workers, even upon the most backward, that religion has been in the past and still is today one of the most powerful means at the disposal of the oppressors for the maintenance of inequality, exploitation, and slavish obedience on the part of the toilers.

    Many weak-kneed communists reason as follows: 'Religion does not prevent my being a communist. I believe both in God and in communism. My faith in God does not hinder me from fighting for the cause of the proletarian revolution.'

    This train of thought is radically false. Religion and communism are incompatible, both theoretically and practically.

    Every communist must regard social phenomena (the relationships between human beings, revolutions, wars, etc.) as processes which occur in accordance with definite laws. The laws of social development have been fully established by scientific communism on the basis of the theory of historical materialism which we owe to our great teachers Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. This theory explains that social development is not brought about by any kind of supernatural forces. Nay more. The same theory has demonstrated that the very idea of God and of supernatural powers arises at a definite stage in human history, and at another definite stage begins to disappear as a childish notion which finds no confirmation in practical life and in the struggle between man and nature. But it is profitable to the predatory class to maintain the ignorance of the people and to maintain the people's childish belief in miracles (the key to the riddle really lies in the exploiters' pockets), and this is why religious prejudices are so tenacious, and why they confuse the minds even of persons who are in other respects able."

    snip

    "In practice, no less than in theory, communism is incompatible with religious faith. The tactic of the Communist Party prescribes for the members of the party definite lines of conduct. The moral code of every religion in like manner prescribes for the faithful some definite line of conduct. For example, the Christian code runs: 'Whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.' In most cases there is an irreconcilable conflict between the principles of communist tactics and the commandments of religion. A communist who rejects the commandments of religion and acts in accordance with the directions of the party, ceases to be one of the faithful. On the other hand, one who, while calling himself a communist, continues to cling to his religious faith, one who in the name of religious commandments infringes the prescriptions of the party, ceases thereby to be a communist."

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/buk...920/abc/11.htm

    There you have it.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #122
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    Re: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There are very few in the name of atheism.
    Sure. Communist states only executed a vanishingly small number of people, I'm sure.

  3. #123
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    Re: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Sure. Communist states only executed a vanishingly small number of people, I'm sure.
    Executing people in the name of communism is absolutely not the same as executing in the name of atheism.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #124
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    Re: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, let's see what the experts say:

    "Religion is the opium of the people,' said Karl Marx. It is the task of the Communist Party to make this truth comprehensible to the widest possible circles of the labouring masses. It is the task of the party to impress firmly upon the minds of the workers, even upon the most backward, that religion has been in the past and still is today one of the most powerful means at the disposal of the oppressors for the maintenance of inequality, exploitation, and slavish obedience on the part of the toilers.

    Many weak-kneed communists reason as follows: 'Religion does not prevent my being a communist. I believe both in God and in communism. My faith in God does not hinder me from fighting for the cause of the proletarian revolution.'

    This train of thought is radically false. Religion and communism are incompatible, both theoretically and practically.

    Every communist must regard social phenomena (the relationships between human beings, revolutions, wars, etc.) as processes which occur in accordance with definite laws. The laws of social development have been fully established by scientific communism on the basis of the theory of historical materialism which we owe to our great teachers Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. This theory explains that social development is not brought about by any kind of supernatural forces. Nay more. The same theory has demonstrated that the very idea of God and of supernatural powers arises at a definite stage in human history, and at another definite stage begins to disappear as a childish notion which finds no confirmation in practical life and in the struggle between man and nature. But it is profitable to the predatory class to maintain the ignorance of the people and to maintain the people's childish belief in miracles (the key to the riddle really lies in the exploiters' pockets), and this is why religious prejudices are so tenacious, and why they confuse the minds even of persons who are in other respects able."

    snip

    "In practice, no less than in theory, communism is incompatible with religious faith. The tactic of the Communist Party prescribes for the members of the party definite lines of conduct. The moral code of every religion in like manner prescribes for the faithful some definite line of conduct. For example, the Christian code runs: 'Whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.' In most cases there is an irreconcilable conflict between the principles of communist tactics and the commandments of religion. A communist who rejects the commandments of religion and acts in accordance with the directions of the party, ceases to be one of the faithful. On the other hand, one who, while calling himself a communist, continues to cling to his religious faith, one who in the name of religious commandments infringes the prescriptions of the party, ceases thereby to be a communist."

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/buk...920/abc/11.htm

    There you have it.
    Marx does not speak for nor represent all communists.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #125
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    Re: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students

    Quote Originally Posted by spangledbanner View Post
    I blame Fox News for this primarily and US media in general. It was only a matter of time. I hope that Bill ORielly and Sean Hannity are happy now.
    Wooot!

    Fox News is now responsible for Parking Disputes!!!!!

  6. #126
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    Re: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Executing people in the name of communism is absolutely not the same as executing in the name of atheism.
    An edict by the state that all will be atheist is the same as an edict that all will be Muslim, Protestant, or Catholic. When a state conflates "theist" with "not a communist", and punishes you accordingly, they are absolutely doing so for atheism.


    Marx does not speak for nor represent all communists.
    Ah. The good ole No True Socialism Fallacy. Marx's followers were the ones who performed the vast majority of the atheist purges.

  7. #127
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    Re: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    An edict by the state that all will be atheist is the same as an edict that all will be Muslim, Protestant, or Catholic. When a state conflates "theist" with "not a communist", and punishes you accordingly, they are absolutely doing so for atheism.

    Ah. The good ole No True Socialism Fallacy. Marx's followers were the ones who performed the vast majority of the atheist purges.
    No they are not the same because of their purpose. Theocracies make those decrees because they believe their religion demands it. Countries that feel religion crowds the loyalty to the state is banning religion for political reasons, not religious beliefs.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #128
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    Re: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No they are not the same because of their purpose. Theocracies make those decrees because they believe their religion demands it
    Sure, and that includes atheistic regimes who make the exact same manner of decrees because their belief system demands it.

    Countries that feel religion crowds the loyalty to the state is banning religion for political reasons, not religious beliefs.
    then the same applies to theocracies. Loyalty to the Pope was considered (for example) treasonous in Protestant countries because it meant Catholic Armies would be able to impose religious duties on you to support them in the event of an invasion.

    When you bind up the states authority with a belief system, then when the state punishes you for having a different belief system, that the act is additionally political does not mean it is not due to the belief system being coercively applied.
    Last edited by cpwill; 02-13-15 at 12:15 PM.

  9. #129
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    Re: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students

    What I am trying to figure out.... and please help me if I have missed something...

    Why are we assuming this guy killed these people because of their religion and because he is an Athiest?

    Are we going to assume from here on out in every case that if two people involved in an incident of violence are of different religious views that this difference is the cause of the violence despite what we know about the situation. Are we going to interject religious conflict where we don't even know it belongs?

    So, he was an atheist who owned guns. Does that instantly make him a hunter of religious people?



    Its interesting how people are condemning him for judging these muslims and killing them..... with no evidence that this is what happened. Meanwhile, they are ignoring the fact that THEY THEMSELVES are the ones rushing to judgement of another.

    Reflect on that for a moment.

  10. #130
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    Re: North Carolina man charged in shooting death of 3 Muslim students

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Sure, and that includes atheistic regimes who make the exact same manner of decrees because their belief system demands it.

    then the same applies to theocracies. Loyalty to the Pope was considered (for example) treasonous in Protestant countries because it meant Catholic Armies would be able to impose religious duties on you to support them in the event of an invasion.

    When you bind up the states authority with a belief system, then when the state punishes you for having a different belief system, that the act is additionally political does not mean it is not due to the belief system being coercively applied.
    In the case of theocracies, not all laws or killings or injustices will be based on religious beliefs either, but some are. It would depend on how the law is written and why it is place. If the reasoning is that a specific group should be killed based on some religious belief, such as homosexuality is condemned by the bible/Koran, or you shall not suffer a witch to live, or god so-and-so thinks mentally/physically "defective" people should be put out of "misery" regardless of age, or Jews go against God, that is killing in the name of religion. If on the other hand, those in charge are putting people to death, imprisoning people, passing laws against things because they feel those people or certain beliefs/mind sets threaten their power or way of governing, that is political ideology being used.

    Unless the reason for killing is specifically something along the lines of, "you believe in a higher power/afterlife, therefore you must die or be imprisoned, then it is not persecution due to atheism.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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