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Thread: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

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    Re: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    If you hit someone and don't have insurance you are still responsible for any damage you cause there just isn't an insurance company paying for it.
    If you are too poor to pay a fine for not having insurance you have no assets to seize.

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    Re: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    That's different, that crime has a victim.
    So "victimless" crimes should not be crimes? If you follow someone to close in a car you get no ticket for tail gating I guess. There is no victim until or unless you slam into someone from behind and spin them into oncoming traffic and kill them? Then they get a ticket?

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    Re: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

    Quote Originally Posted by ironhorse View Post
    So "victimless" crimes should not be crimes? If you follow someone to close in a car you get no ticket for tail gating I guess. There is no victim until or unless you slam into someone from behind and spin them into oncoming traffic and kill them? Then they get a ticket?
    I didn't say that. I said that victimless crimes should not result in jail time.
    I have CDO, it's like OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.

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    Re: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    If you hit someone and don't have insurance you are still responsible for any damage you cause there just isn't an insurance company paying for it.
    Are you kidding me? This is a poor (and disabled) person that will not even pay court ordered fines yet you assert that they would pay accident liability damages.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

    I could be wrong, but aren't the penalties in most small crimes an either/or penalty? Ten dollars or ten days?

    If you don't pay the fine, then you have made your choice.

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    Re: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    I didn't say that. I said that victimless crimes should not result in jail time.
    On the whole I am not in favour of prison for most crimes. But your attitude is very absolutist. It implies that somebody who doesn't pay taxes can under no circumstances be sentenced to jail.

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    Re: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

    You guys are all getting off track here (a common malady of this forum). The point of the OP (and the article I linked to) is people being incarcerated for the simple fact that they don't have the means to pay fines for simple offenses and court fees accrued due to those cases. People are being locked up just because they are poor. In all fairness I did move the discussion a little further to include all victimless crimes as Paxaeon defined better than I did. There have been cases where someone is jailed for a short period of time for a couple hundred dollar fine and when they get out they are presented a bill for food, etc. that they accrued while in jail. Guess what? they can't pay that either so back to jail they go. Does this sound like the right thing to do to you? According to the ACLU America has 5% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds prisoners. How's it feel to be on a list with the likes of N Korea?
    I have CDO, it's like OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.

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    Re: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleming View Post
    On the whole I am not in favour of prison for most crimes. But your attitude is very absolutist. It implies that somebody who doesn't pay taxes can under no circumstances be sentenced to jail.
    Never said that either.
    I have CDO, it's like OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.

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    Re: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    You guys are all getting off track here (a common malady of this forum). The point of the OP (and the article I linked to) is people being incarcerated for the simple fact that they don't have the means to pay fines for simple offenses and court fees accrued due to those cases. People are being locked up just because they are poor. In all fairness I did move the discussion a little further to include all victimless crimes as Paxaeon defined better than I did. There have been cases where someone is jailed for a short period of time for a couple hundred dollar fine and when they get out they are presented a bill for food, etc. that they accrued while in jail. Guess what? they can't pay that either so back to jail they go. Does this sound like the right thing to do to you? According to the ACLU America has 5% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds prisoners. How's it feel to be on a list with the likes of N Korea?
    On what basis do you conclude that all people who don't pay their fines do so because they are poor and not because they don't want to pay?

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    Re: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    Never said that either.
    In what way is not paying taxes less of a victimless crime than not paying fines?

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