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Thread: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

  1. #321
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    Re: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    So the business model enables stupid, irresponsible people to be even more stupid and irresponsible, and because of that, it should be regulated.

    In other words, you want to regulate the behavior of people.
    Generalizing all who use these predators?
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    Re: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Generalizing all who use these predators?
    You generalize constantly. I have no idea why anyone pays the slightest attention to you.
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    Re: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    There's nothing hidden about the charges you pay when you take a payday loan. They have to comply with the Truth In Lending laws and have to disclose to you what you will pay. You have to sign it. Nothing hidden, and nothing predatory.

    And it's nice of you to assume that all other adults are too stupid to protect themselves so you have to do it for them, but this isn't a nanny state.
    In my country there is. Like most terms and conditions trained solicitors can't make head nor tale of them. As I have said in my country, which I took pains to make the distinction that I was comparing the UKs pay day lenders which you clearly missed there is no truth in lending laws, whatever the hell that is. There is life outside of the USA bub.

    Its nice of you to assume that by having a police force the population is to stupid to protect themselves, by having any regulation ever and having government at all means you basically think that the population is stupid and idiotic. Fantastic logic...no wait there is no logic there at all.

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    Re: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You generalize constantly. I have no idea why anyone pays the slightest attention to you.
    No I do not - I see you are upset.
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  5. #325
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    Re: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Because you're the one proposing that we change the system, you just have no idea how to actually change it.
    Morning Cephus....Really? I don't recall seeing my name in the OP...All I am doing is debating on a message board about a business that I feel is highly unethical. I don't see where that means that I personally have to have the entire solution worked out...

    But, I will say I do agree with some of the points that you and Tres lay out, they are valid...Such as no one forcing these people to take out the loans...That is a good point and I am hesitant to get into the business of 'saving people from themselves', however, I just don't like these places...

    The system works, the people involved in these transactions aren't being harmed...
    Consider this from Pew....

    "People who use payday loans are struggling financially, and they usually have trouble covering ordinary livingexpenses from month to month. Most are paying bank overdraft fees, most carry credit card or other debt, andalmost all have credit scores that are at the lowest end of the scale.

    Policy discussion in recent years has focusedon whether payday loan customers need more access to credit, and what rate of interest is appropriate for such loans. These are valid questions, but there is insufficient evidence to know whether consumers are better off with or without access to high-interest loans (even if the loans have affordable payments).

    There is, however, sufficient evidence to conclude that conventional lump-sum payday loans harm consumers compared with loans that have affordable payments. It is clear that the lump-sum payday loan has inherent structural flaws that make it unaffordable and dangerous for consumers, and that new policies to eliminate this failed product are warranted."

    http://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/leg...dationspdf.pdf

    they are doing it willingly, understanding the consequences.
    that's debatable...Many, in fact I would say most don't fully understand how to budget, and spend day to day, therefore, understanding the long term effect on their bills is not too much of a thought at the time of taking out these products.

    It's only the people on the outside who are trying to save these people from themselves.
    that is true, and I am conflicted about my own position on this, but in the end I stand on ethical practices, and this industry is void of ethics. I know first hand.

    The system ain't broke. Stop trying to fix it unless you have a better solution.
    All I can say is that if I were ever in that position (again) I would hope that someone would help me ward against people, con men really, out to drop the anvil on my head...

    Are you in the business Cephus? I just wonder. Because, although my arguments in here are often on the political right because I am a believer in personal responsibility, but, and this is about the only but, when I see clear advantage being cast on one group of people with little resource to correct the problem, I think it is a horribly unethical thing to do....But, I do want to say that I don't have good answers on how to fix it, I just know that it is destructive.
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    Re: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

    Quote Originally Posted by cowen70 View Post
    In my country there is. Like most terms and conditions trained solicitors can't make head nor tale of them. As I have said in my country, which I took pains to make the distinction that I was comparing the UKs pay day lenders which you clearly missed there is no truth in lending laws, whatever the hell that is. There is life outside of the USA bub.

    Its nice of you to assume that by having a police force the population is to stupid to protect themselves, by having any regulation ever and having government at all means you basically think that the population is stupid and idiotic. Fantastic logic...no wait there is no logic there at all.
    But we aren't talking about your country.
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    Re: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Generalizing all who use these predators?
    You have. Your issue with the lenders is that they're "predators". Which means you've decided that nobody is responsible enough not to protect themselves against these "predators".

    And you haven't made any compelling argument to regulate them any more than they already are regulated except to say "they're predators!".
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    Re: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    You have. Your issue with the lenders is that they're "predators". Which means you've decided that nobody is responsible enough not to protect themselves against these "predators".

    And you haven't made any compelling argument to regulate them any more than they already are regulated except to say "they're predators!".
    Good point. The argument I put forwards is the high fees for short term loans, that are often rolled over with the same fees as part of the renewal. Perhaps lengthening the base model from 2 weeks to a sustanable period to pay back the loan would be a good step.
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    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

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    Re: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    But we aren't talking about your country.
    But the principal of regulation is not a wrong one. Just because someone could avoid it if they wanted to. By that logic no regulation should exist ever.

    And quite often it is to prey upon the desperate who are not making logical choices or are not educated enough and it ends up spiralling them into a circle of huge debt, where one small debt turns into a big unaffordable one. That is predatory.

    Its a question of are you happy to have a section of society be preyed upon by companies set up and designed to do just that, its their raison d'etre, and if that is legal then why not just allow loan sharks? And if they kill a few well hell they are to stupid to exist anyway right?

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    Re: Consumer Protection Agency Seeks Limits on Payday Lenders

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    You have. Your issue with the lenders is that they're "predators". Which means you've decided that nobody is responsible enough not to protect themselves against these "predators".

    And you haven't made any compelling argument to regulate them any more than they already are regulated except to say "they're predators!".
    Stop pretending that there aren't lending practices that nearly everyone with a financial background identifies as predatory. It's simply dishonest.

    You should already know this: Predatory lending - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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