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Thread: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses[W:344,535,718]

  1. #701
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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    But that is (currently) not recognized in most of Alabama.
    The right to equal protection however is recognized by the US Constitution, and Alabama is part of the USA and bound by that Constitution.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No one gives them to you.
    The most intelligent thing I've heard all day. You should have stopped there.

    They are a concept humans invented based mainly on what we as a collective view as fair. This is why they are recognized and can be different for different groups of people depending on what governs those people.
    The whole point of the Declaration is that, no, these rights don't depend on what government you have, not at all. And they don't vary. That is what they are saying. Looks like you think the Founders were wrong.
    Last edited by Anthony60; 02-13-15 at 10:11 PM.
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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Ok, but here's where you run into trouble for your statement. The 14th isn't just some one size fits all amendment, there are degrees of what the government must show. In this case, it has been established, even by Walker that SSM requires rational basis, and it has been shown, regardless of whether you agree, that by states amending their constitutions to place limits on marriage, they are by definition rational on their face. Walker didn't like that, even though he knew it, so what he did was invent gender as the basis for SSM, not sexuality. The lawyers in opposition, and since in many court cases have followed the Prop 8 guide and have argued rational basis. How this reflects upon your statement that people are afforded rights by collective compromise seems to be inconsistent with the way this is all playing out. It doesn't seem like there's any compromising going on, instead we have judges changing laws, laws voted on by the people, not because of tyranny of the will of the people, but because they simply don't like them.

    Judges are writing law in America today, and to do so, they're changing the perception of the argument, by ignoring that the petitioners are petitioning not based on their gender, but on the basis of their sexual orientation. By invoking gender (Of which those against Prop 8 did not even argue in any of their briefs but Walker gifted them) Walker created a distinction without a distinction for the sake of raising the level of scrutiny to be considered by the court. That is NOT compromise, it isn't a collective, in fact, what Walker and seemingly every single judge thereafter has done, is effectively ignore the process by which rights are afforded, and or limited in the US, by manipulating the level of review. The real question that needs to be answered is: What is the nature of the SSM debate, and how should it be reviewed, and viewed by not only our judges, but by its citizens, and leaders?


    Tim-
    This logic would then require all laws that are put into place and not fall under higher scrutiny automatically be constitutional. It fails because this isn't true. Just because a law is voted in does not give it automatic rational basis.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #704
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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    [QUOTE=Anthony60;1064311156]

    The most intelligent thing I've heard all day. You should have stopped there.

    The whole point of the Declaration is that, no, these rights don't depend on what government you have, not at all. And they don't vary. That is what they are saying. Looks like you think the Founders were wrong.
    Let me explain something to you, the DOI is a wonderful historical document, but it is not part of our law. And while I have a lot of respect for our founding fathers, they are not infallible. They were wrong.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Why? Because guys like Roy Moore seem to want to structure the government around the so called god given rights.

    You really can't address this can you? How do you know that we have rights granted to us by god?

    Yeah, it is in the Declaration of Independence. But......proof. It is so easy to say that we have god given rights....but that is just a person saying it.

    Get the big guy upstairs to clarify, otherwise it is just words.

    BTW, when that was written, were slaves part of that "all men created equal" language?
    So... what is the proof you want again? You keep asking for it, but I'm getting the impression that you have no idea what you are asking for.

    Oh, and for maybe the fourth time, forget God in this, it works without religion, if you understand the concept.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its very telling that the bigots in Alabama used the same argument a few decades ago. Telling but not surprising.

    Alabama used the states' right argument to ban marriages before
    Certain individuals and groups are so extremist, that when only they are left complaining, we can rest assured they are wrong.

    When the deep south weeps for "states' rights" i just remind myself they're the moral inheritors of the plantation class and the KKK (and one day, chief justice moore). It's only astonishing that they believe anyone will be persuaded this time around.

    I truly wonder what feeble attempt at denying minority rights and refusing to obey federal court orders will come next. Maybe we should actually orchestrate a "bestiality rights" movement just to watch them cry into their bibles all over again....Actually, never mind, they are quite fond of their horses i hear and would only welcome a court order to allow bestiality

    Ok then, who do they hate more than gays? There must be something...

    How about we start a pacifist movement? Or a secular movement?

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    [QUOTE][QUOTE=roguenuke;1064311168]
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post

    Let me explain something to you, the DOI is a wonderful historical document, but it is not part of our law.
    It's known as Organic Law.

    And while I have a lot of respect for our founding fathers, they are not infallible. They were wrong.
    Now there's one for the ages. Damn, and almost everyone thought they got it right with the Declaration of Independence. When I say a leader has gotten it wrong, it's usually Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, etc... For you, it's Thomas Jefferson.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post

    It's known as Organic Law.


    Now there's one for the ages. Damn, and almost everyone thought they got it right with the Declaration of Independence. When I say a leader has gotten it wrong, it's usually Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, etc... For you, it's Thomas Jefferson.
    Most of it, the most important parts, they did get right. People should be treated fairly under the law, have rights recognized. They just didn't logically come from any creator. It isn't their fault. At that time, atheism was basically unheard of. The logic of the time concluded that God gave us everything.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its very telling that the bigots in Alabama used the same argument a few decades ago. Telling but not surprising.

    Alabama used the states' right argument to ban marriages before
    Remember the argument that gays aren't being deprived of their rights because they are as free to marry a person of the opposite gender as heteros? A similar argument was used to defend anti-miscegenation laws: " anti-miscegenation laws aren't discriminatory because whites are equally prohibited from marrying outside their race as blacks are."

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    re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses[W:344,535,718]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Why do you feel the need to call me a bigot?
    If you don't support equal rights for all adults, you are a bigot. If that is what you believe, why complain about being accurately labeled?

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