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Thread: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses[W:344,535,718]

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Yes, keep naming two extremely rare and unlikely scenarios as if it comes remotely close to the harm done to gay couples. Taking pictures for a half hour doesn't force you to 'approve' anything either. It just means doing your ****ing job the same as always

    Tons of people do things they don't like in their jobs, and i would laugh in the face of any right wing tears, except i know they don't give a damn about the bigot baker or photographer, except to use them to oppress
    Oh, good, if you only destroy a few people's lives and life work that makes it okay. I'm so pleased.

    BTW, I don't do things on the job I don't like, I enjoy my job, but then, I'm not you.

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by it's just me View Post
    Oh, good, if you only destroy a few people's lives and life work that makes it okay. I'm so pleased.

    BTW, I don't do things on the job I don't like, I enjoy my job, but then, I'm not you.
    equal rights isn't destroying anybody lives or life work so you can rest easy now, that fantasy isnt happening
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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    >

    Today should be interesting; at 1:00 PM there is a hearing in Federal District court to determine if the court will issue an injunction against a Probate Court Judge ordering him to issue Civil Marriages licenses.

    To recap the Federal District Court ruled Alabama Same-sex Marriage ban was unconstitutional (Link 1). A couple of days later a clarifying order was issued (Link 2). The State went to the 11 Circuit for a stay and it was rejected. Then they went to the SCOTUS and it was rejected. Some Probate Judges have been issuing licenses in accordance with the Federal Judge’s ruling, some have been issuing licenses only to different-sex couples, and some have refused to issue any licenses. Probate Judge Don Davis has been added as a named defendant (Link 3) and is the subject of the hearing today. Under Alabama Revised Statutes Title 30, Chapter 1, Section 9 (Link 4) Probate Judges are the only ones that can issue licenses and the law says they “may” (not that they “shall). Probate Judge Davis has already gone to the Alabama Supreme Court seeking assistance and they rejected him saying basically he was on his own (Link 5).

    So it will interesting to see the outcome of today’s hearing for an injunction against Probate Judge Davis, here are the options I see:

    Option #1:
    Do nothing, which of course is always an option. I don’t see it happening where a Federal Judge is going to allow a lower court Judge to defy his or her order. But it could happen.

    Option #2:
    As the only official in the country that can issue Civil Marriage Licenses, the District Court Judge issues an injunction against Probate Judge Davis requiring him to reopen license issuing operations and that licenses will not be denied based on sex. If Probate Judge Davis continues to refuse (as now a named defendant in the case), then he will be in contempt of court and subject to sanction by the Federal District Court as well as possibly being personally required to pay court costs, lawyer’s fees, and damages to any couple (different-sex and same-sex) denied a license based on sex.

    Option #3:
    Reiterate that Alabama’s ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional but recognize that under Alabama Revised Statutes (30-1-9) that Probate Judges issuance of Civil Marriage Licenses is optional. Issue an injunction that says that Probate Judge Davis can continue to not offer Civil Marriage Licenses to anyone (different-sex and same-sex) in accordance with Alabama Code, but that if he does resume operations and issues licenses in a discriminatory manner, then he will be in contempt of court and subject to sanction by the Federal District Court as well as possibly personally being required to pay court costs, lawyer’s fees, and damages to any couple (different-sex and same-sex) denied a license based on sex.

    Personally I kind of like Option #3 as it buts the ball squarely in the hands of Probate Judge Davis. He can continue not to issue Civil Marriage Licenses, but in doing so he will be rejecting what 95-97% of the licenses that would be issued (more inconvenience to different-sex couples) so as not to issue license to 3-5% of those requesting licenses. I wonder how long that action would last before the people would go to the legislature asking that the law be changed from “may” issue to “shall” issue removing the option from Probate Judges having optional duties.



    ************************************************** *******

    #1 -->> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...-and-order.pdf
    #2 -->> 1:14-cv-00208 #65 Order Clarifying Judgment
    #3 -->> https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...r-2-10-15.html
    #4 -->> Code Of Alabama
    #5 -->> Alabama Supreme Court punts on request for 'clarification' of Roy Moore's marriage order | AL.com


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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Aids is a public health concern.
    Irrelevant to same-sex marriage.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    No, her Constitutional interpretation is non-binding... another district court in the state could interpret the Constitution very differently and it would be just as valid (and non-binding).
    Not true. Because her order was not stayed or overturned by a higher court, it becomes binding until later reversed.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    That's just funny. If there were more people like me, who want the Constitution enforced, there would not have been black & white drinking fountains. It's the people like you, on the left, who just care about the ends, and screw the Constitution, that enable governments to take our liberties.
    Weren't you the guy who wanted judges to change their rulings based on the will of the people?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I prefer to think of myself as a US citizen first, and actually don't really think that much about being a citizen of the state I live in. It may have to do with many things. For one, I haven't lived in the same state since I became an adult for longer than 4 years, and even then I knew it would be "temporary" since it was due to being stationed there, either me or my husband. And I never really cared which state I ended up in once I got out, so long as I got to check out the specific area we would be moving to beforehand. It started prior to my joining the military though. This could be because my parents are from different states and their families from different parts of the country (mother from North, father from South). My mother and her family seemed to be much more positive influences on my feelings and how I was raised though. Being raised in the South, there were plenty of my peers that would say things like "the South will rise again". I was actually born in a different state than the one I consider my home state because my parents were in the Army at the time.

    Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think there is any issue with having pride in the state you are from or trying to defend it. I do however feel that the main argument people use concerning states' rights is that the federal government is attempting to create a tyranny over the states, to "steal" their power. The problem here is that in most cases, the states are actually trying to prevent individuals from doing something or treating them unequally using laws and justifying this as "the majority of this state wants this". A tyranny of the majority is such whether it is a majority of the country or a majority within the state. The most important thing the Constitution was meant to protect was individual freedoms, and despite many beliefs, the founding fathers were not in agreement in whether states or the federal government should have more power. There was a lot of division in this.
    Some good points here. Thanks for posting.

    I moved some early on due to my dad's job. But once I got to third grade, we stayed in the same state until I was out of college, when I moved to California and have been here ever since.

    I agree on your points re what most people do when they discuss states' rights.

    I always find it interesting - even though I do it myself - that we don't have a problem with the courts when they agree with us, only when they don't. (I personally think Citizens' United was a bad decision. However, I'm not threatening to overthrow the federal govt because of it).

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Not true. Because her order was not stayed or overturned by a higher court, it becomes binding until later reversed.

    I think what Taylor is alluding to is that District Court rulings are binding, but only within their Jurisdiction. There are multiple Federal District Courts in Alabama and Judge Granade's ruling is only truly binding in her own district.


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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Not true. Because her order was not stayed or overturned by a higher court, it becomes binding until later reversed.
    Something you keep insisting, but just isn't true. Another judge even within her same district is not bound by the ruling and could come up with a very different interpretation of the law. The state law has not been "overturned" as you claim, it is very much still in effect (and being enforced in many parts of the state). District court rulings don't "overturn" state laws, these cases affect only those who are a party to the case, and therefore only those who are party to the case are bound by the decision (and prohibited from enforcing what is still the law in Alabama). Hence the reason for the hearing today. Once this judge is forced to issue licenses, in all likelihood the rest will follow suit (though they could hold out and force others to spend time and money bringing additional court actions).

    An appeals court decision, though still not technically binding on the state courts, would nonetheless have the same effect because all district courts *would* be bound by the decision and therefore would all be expected to rule exactly the same. For now, we have a state with three districts, and a judge that has made a ruling in one of those districts.

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    Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Weren't you the guy who wanted judges to change their rulings based on the will of the people?
    Judges should be making rulings according to the Constitution, and not stepping into territory where they have no authority.

    Let's, briefly, summarize the left's strategy on this, shall we? Good...

    They want some big government power grab or iron fisted leftist dictate to become law. They have no where near the support to get the Constitution amended for this. Then, they have a State wide vote, still not enough support, and lose. Ah, well who cares about what the people want, anyway?

    Okay, so not enough support there. But they have a back door (no pun intended) that they have been working on for years. Find a court where they've accumulated enough leftist Judges that will ignore the Constitution and follow the leftist agenda instead. People without integrity (a highly desirable characteristic to succeed as a leftist).

    And poof! Like magic, a handful, or even just one Judge has eviscerated both the Constitution and the will of the people in one fell swoop.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

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