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Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses[W:344,535,718]

Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
Since when did the federal government need to get involved in whether prisoners have the "right" to marry?

We are so far removed from what the founders of this nation had in mind in terms of how our government is structured, it's ridiculous. I don't want the federal government involved with social issues.
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This isn't about federal government getting involved. There is no federal law at play, nor any action by any federal agency. These are state laws being challenged under the constitution. The question before the court is whether the state defining marriage as between a man and a woman is constitutional under the 14th amendment.

The 14th amendment does apply to the states.
 
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Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Deuce said:
This isn't about federal government getting involved. There is no federal law at play, nor any action by any federal agency. These are state laws being challenged under the constitution. The question before the court is whether the state defining marriage as between a man and a woman is constitutional under the 14th amendment.

The 14th amendment does apply to the states.
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So it's the federal government (federal court) dictating to the states what they can and can't do. Again, when did we become that country?

The courts have far, far overstepped their constitutional authority long ago.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
What ever happened to state's rights?

Since when did marriage become a federal priority?
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Since when did state rights magically become superior to everything else, regardless of the law of right in question?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
I don't want the federal government involved with social issues.
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Because state governments are willing to enforce your bigotry in defiance of the constitution.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
So it's the federal government (federal court) dictating to the states what they can and can't do. Again, when did we become that country?

The courts have far, far overstepped their constitutional authority long ago.
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Do you have any understanding of the United States Constitution and the Supremacy Clause?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Redress said:
From your source I find this interesting, though it might end up being nothing:
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Scalia said the same thing in his vitriolic dissent in the DOMA case....essentially, "the writing is on the wall". Anyone who thinks that this case isn't already over is really either an extreme optimist or just fooling themselves.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

paddymcdougall said:
apologies, didn't mean that you approve of him. But I assume Thomas does, and I don't remember Thomas ever suggesting that Scalia shouldn't trumpet his decisions in advance.
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You are reading too much into a passing comment of Thomas's. His reasoning for dissent had nothing to do with that.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

disneydude said:
Scalia said the same thing in his vitriolic dissent in the DOMA case....essentially, "the writing is on the wall". Anyone who thinks that this case isn't already over is really either an extreme optimist or just fooling themselves.
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Yeah, that is what people said after oral arguments for the ACA case. Then it turned out as almost no one predicted. Don't try and predict SCOTUS, it does not tend to go well.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Cardinal said:
Since when did state rights magically become superior to everything else, regardless of the law of right in question?
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No magic. When this nation was founded, states ran the show and the federal government was a rather small entity concerned mainly with national defense.

Over the years, states have ceded more and more power to the federal government. It began with a power grab by the Supreme Court (until the 1800's, it was NOT the case that the Supreme Court could declare laws of congress "unconstitutional.") The trend has continued and continues to this day.

In my opinion, we've gone too far.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Paschendale said:
Because state governments are willing to enforce your bigotry in defiance of the constitution.
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So who gets to decide what's bigotry and what isn't, some lawmaker in Washington?

If Texas wants to sell assault weapons or ban gay marriage, it's none of your damn business in New York what we do. It always used to be that way, that was the intention of the founding fathers, but we've lost our identity as the UNITED STATES and become a monolith.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
So it's the federal government (federal court) dictating to the states what they can and can't do. Again, when did we become that country?

The courts have far, far overstepped their constitutional authority long ago.
Click to expand...

The 14th amendment applies to states. This is the constitution dictating to the states what they can and can't do.

If that bothers you, well, tough.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

disneydude said:
Do you have any understanding of the United States Constitution and the Supremacy Clause?
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Have you read any American history?

We're the UNITED STATES, emphasis on STATES. The way things are now, we ought to change the name of our country to the American Federal Republic.

What the hell does a state do anymore? I'll tell you, what we have become is NOT what the original founders had in mind.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
So who gets to decide what's bigotry and what isn't, some lawmaker in Washington?

If Texas wants to sell assault weapons or ban gay marriage, it's none of your damn business in New York what we do. It always used to be that way, that was the intention of the founding fathers, but we've lost our identity as the UNITED STATES and become a monolith.
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Personally I think the constitution applying to states is better.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Deuce said:
The 14th amendment applies to states. This is the constitution dictating to the states what they can and can't do.

If that bothers you, well, tough.
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The 14th amendment says nothing about gay marriage. If the federal court ruled that way, it's a loose "interpretation" as they are so fond of doing. Bend the constitution to fit whatever pet agenda you have that day.

If gay marriage is constitutional, why didn't we have gay marriage immediately after the 14th amendment was ratified?

The federal court is overstepping its bounds and trampling on state's rights in this case.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
The 14th amendment says nothing about gay marriage. If the federal court ruled that way, it's a loose "interpretation" as they are so fond of doing. Bend the constitution to fit whatever pet agenda you have that day.
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The 14th amendment says equal protection under the law. If your assertion that the lack of specifics means it doesn't apply, then you're declaring the 14th amendment doesn't apply to anything. Is that your assertion?

f gay marriage is constitutional, why didn't we have gay marriage immediately after the 14th amendment was ratified?
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By this logic, no law has ever been unconstitutional unless a court instantly decided such. Interesting. So you now believe every single gun law is constitutional, right?

The federal court is overstepping its bounds and trampling on state's rights in this case.
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No, it is not. The states are trampling on the rights of the individual, which apparently doesn't bother you. Why do you throw away individual liberty so easily?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
The 14th amendment says nothing about gay marriage. If the federal court ruled that way, it's a loose "interpretation" as they are so fond of doing. Bend the constitution to fit whatever pet agenda you have that day.

If gay marriage is constitutional, why didn't we have gay marriage immediately after the 14th amendment was ratified?

The federal court is overstepping its bounds and trampling on state's rights in this case.
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Again....replace the word 'gay' with 'interracial' and see what happens.

Then see how absurd you sound.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

chromium said:
why would you pity them at all? Doing their job entails following the *federal* court order. The Equality Alabama group is also giving them fair warning they will sue the judges personally and report them to the bar if they deny any marriage licenses.
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Doing their job entails following *both* state and federal court orders, and because the federal ruling is non-binding on Alabama state courts, there's the potential to be caught in the middle of a battle that can only be resolved by the SCOTUS.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Deuce said:
The 14th amendment says equal protection under the law. If your assertion that the lack of specifics means it doesn't apply, then you're declaring the 14th amendment doesn't apply to anything. Is that your assertion?


By this logic, no law has ever been unconstitutional unless a court instantly decided such. Interesting. So you now believe every single gun law is constitutional, right?


No, it is not. The states are trampling on the rights of the individual, which apparently doesn't bother you. Why do you throw away individual liberty so easily?
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That gay marriage is just NOW coming in to play reflects cultural shifts, and it goes to show that the constitution can be interpreted BOTH to include and exclude gay marriage.

Gay marriage has been illegal for years, and that was the law of the land, and we had the 14th amendment. So what changed?

Activism, and cultural shifts.

So, fine. But let the activists stay in their own damn states. Alabama wants nothing to do with you, and it will only come back to bite you.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Threegoofs said:
Again....replace the word 'gay' with 'interracial' and see what happens.

Then see how absurd you sound.
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Maybe I should be allowed to marry my horse. I mean, where do you draw the line? And, more importantly, WHO gets to decide where that line is drawn?

In my opinion, I'd just as soon have my local state government/court system make that decision. I have no interest in Washington career politicians, most of whom have never stepped foot in Texas, deciding what our local laws need to be.

It's not their place.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
That gay marriage is just NOW coming in to play reflects cultural shifts, and it goes to show that the constitution can be interpreted BOTH to include and exclude gay marriage.

Gay marriage has been illegal for years, and that was the law of the land, and we had the 14th amendment. So what changed?
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So you think every single gun law currently in existence is constitutional, right? Because they haven't been ruled unconstitutional.

The reason that same-sex marriage has not been previously ruled unconstitutional is that the laws haven't been challenged before.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
No magic. When this nation was founded, states ran the show and the federal government was a rather small entity concerned mainly with national defense.

Over the years, states have ceded more and more power to the federal government. It began with a power grab by the Supreme Court (until the 1800's, it was NOT the case that the Supreme Court could declare laws of congress "unconstitutional.") The trend has continued and continues to this day.

In my opinion, we've gone too far.
Click to expand...

Huh. I'm more interested in the merits and constitutionality of each law on a case by case basis. Wanting a state to be able to strip individual citizens of their rights out of a sense of nostalgia isn't a very good foundation for any position.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Threegoofs said:
Again....replace the word 'gay' with 'interracial' and see what happens.

Then see how absurd you sound.
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Can't on the 14th, "interracial" was what it was about. It wasn't however about homosexuality.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Cardinal said:
Huh. I'm more interested in the merits and constitutionality of each law on a case by case basis. Wanting a state to be able to strip individual citizens of their rights out of a sense of nostalgia isn't a very good foundation for any position.
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Not out of a sense of nostalgia. Out of a sense of mind your own damn business. Don't come in to a southern state with your DC activism bullcrap, forcing your progressive ideals on a population that doesn't want them.

Live and let live.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
Maybe I should be allowed to marry my horse. I mean, where do you draw the line? And, more importantly, WHO gets to decide where that line is drawn?

In my opinion, I'd just as soon have my local state government/court system make that decision. I have no interest in Washington career politicians, most of whom have never stepped foot in Texas, deciding what our local laws need to be.

It's not their place.
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When a large contingent of people and sentient horses protest their civil rights being infringed, I think we will seriously have to consider that.

I'm sure the people of Alabama would have appreciated their local government to decide about interracial marriage and having integrated schools. But that wouldnt be right, would it?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

clownboy said:
Can't on the 14th, "interracial" was what it was about. It wasn't however about homosexuality.
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Again, go back to the post and replace the words. You'' note that interracial marriage was illegal about a century after the 14th was passed.
 
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