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Thread: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

  1. #371
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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    What are you talking about, "out of turn" and what do you mean by accusing him of not doing his job? He was doing it right up until the Bush administration told him and his team to leave, he couldn't wait any longer to execute his ****ing "shock and awe"
    He was not putting enough pressure on the SC to force Saddam to let him in. He was not doing his job. What he was doing was telling Saddam that Bush should not attack along the same line that Schröder and Putin took. That reduced the probability of invasion in Saddam's calculations. That was talking out of turn. Even an idiot would know that that would increase the probability of Saddam not adhering to the SC resolution and therefore of war.
    In Blix's case I am not sure, but in the cases of Chirac, Schröder and Putin it is pretty certain, that they had done the maths and knew, what they were releasing. The later change of policies in France and Germany show that they realized that the approach harmed them badly. Putin's activities since then show, that he was practicing, what he has now developed to an art.

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    He was not putting enough pressure on the SC to force Saddam to let him in. He was not doing his job. What he was doing was telling Saddam that Bush should not attack along the same line that Schröder and Putin took. That reduced the probability of invasion in Saddam's calculations. That was talking out of turn. Even an idiot would know that that would increase the probability of Saddam not adhering to the SC resolution and therefore of war.
    In Blix's case I am not sure, but in the cases of Chirac, Schröder and Putin it is pretty certain, that they had done the maths and knew, what they were releasing. The later change of policies in France and Germany show that they realized that the approach harmed them badly. Putin's activities since then show, that he was practicing, what he has now developed to an art.
    You don't have a clue what your talking about, and France, Germany and Russia aren't the topic, its Hans Blix and the AIEA that had all the access they needed to report to the UN with confidence that THERE WERE NO WMD.

    Since we arrived in Iraq, we have conducted more than 400 inspections covering more than 300 sites. All inspections were performed without notice, and access was almost always provided promptly. In no case have we seen convincing evidence that the Iraqi side knew in advance that the inspectors were coming.

    The inspections have taken place throughout Iraq at industrial sites, ammunition depots, research centres, universities, presidential sites, mobile laboratories, private houses, missile production facilities, military camps and agricultural sites. At all sites which had been inspected before 1998, re-baselining activities were performed. This included the identification of the function and contents of each building, new or old, at a site. It also included verification of previously tagged equipment, application of seals and tags, taking samples and discussions with the site personnel regarding past and present activities. At certain sites, ground-penetrating radar was used to look for underground structures or buried equipment.

    Full text: Hans Blix's briefing to the UN security council | World news | The Guardian


    Up until they were withdrawn from Iraq on 18 March –- the day before

    armed action began -- United Nations inspectors had found no evidence of the continuation or resumption of programmes of weapons of mass destruction, Hans Blix told the Security Council this morning, as he briefed them for a final time before stepping down at the end of June as head of the inspection team.

    http://www.un.org/press/en/2003/sc7777.doc.htm
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Even if you don't concede the point and assume that they want them, the question is what is the best way to prevent them from getting them. If your position is that diplomacy is not the way, then there is no long term solution because the problem cannot be solved long term through military means.



    If the Iranians think that we are so weak then why is it that they are negotiating in the first place? If we are so weak, and if it is as you say that they want to develop nuclear weapons, then there is no need for them to negotiate. We don't negotiate with Iran when we want to build nuclear weapons. We just do it. That is the reality.


    Thru use of diplomacy and of course contant inspections and regulations and overcite. Which then you leave it to them if they want to decide to go to war or be nice and peaceful like. Going to war.....is a lose lose situation for them.


    Well there is the UK, France, Germany, the Saud and Israel to consider.

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I completely agree with your characterisation of the false accusation of appeasement, and see it here all the time.
    Indeed it has been run in the ground and has very little basis in reality. It is mostly done for the sake of destroying political opponents.

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Economic war can also backfire and provoke a nation to attack you. Lately our sanction program's have been imposed upon weak or weakfish countries without such abilities, Russia is a bit different situation.
    Yes it can backfire, not only by provoking an attack, but it can serve to purpose of leaders who then have a demon to rally the population. In the case of Cuba, the current sanctions are serving no purpose at all.

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Indeed it has been run in the ground and has very little basis in reality. It is mostly done for the sake of destroying political opponents.
    Yes, it's the standby/go to accusation against anybody critical of war and pro-peace. I noticed in the press conference with Obama yesterday that Mrs. Merkel was dancing vary carefully, still reiterating that there is no military solution in Ukraine!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    OK I will accept putting sanctions in the diplomacy bucket. That being the case we should continue to use this lever and increase it as part of out negotiation stance. To give them up for a flawed agreement is a big mistake, as they will be hard if not impossible to put back once we realize (under the next president) that we have been duped.
    While sanctions can be an effective diplomatic tool, they should not be overused as any type of negative reinforcement when used excessively can be counterproductive. I recall my grandfather telling my father, concerning corporal punishment with regards to my older brother that at a certain point you start to beat hell into the person instead of out of him.

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Thru use of diplomacy and of course contant inspections and regulations and overcite. Which then you leave it to them if they want to decide to go to war or be nice and peaceful like. Going to war.....is a lose lose situation for them.


    Well there is the UK, France, Germany, the Saud and Israel to consider.
    Indeed diplomacy, inspections and oversight are the only realistic way forward long term. Furthermore, as I have said before, while we certainly need to take our allies views into account, we cannot let those views obstruct us in moving forward with what is in our best interests. We should not let the tail wag the dog so to speak.

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Indeed diplomacy, inspections and oversight are the only realistic way forward long term. Furthermore, as I have said before, while we certainly need to take our allies views into account, we cannot let those views obstruct us in moving forward with what is in our best interests. We should not let the tail wag the dog so to speak.


    Seems most know the truth with what Iran has been doing despite the embellishing of how they have complied. What their whole strategy has been.

    They even got around the Sanctions with Turkey and their Gas for gold deal. Which Treasury was aware of. Even BO's own people filed a complaint and have walked back from it. All due to BO's desperation for a deal.

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    While sanctions can be an effective diplomatic tool, they should not be overused as any type of negative reinforcement when used excessively can be counterproductive. I recall my grandfather telling my father, concerning corporal punishment with regards to my older brother that at a certain point you start to beat hell into the person instead of out of him.
    True. But in my view we are not close to that yet.

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