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Thread: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

  1. #201
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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    why do you believe the world's dominant weapon system - nuclear weapons - have not been used since nagasaki?
    Well for one, until about 1964, there was only one real nuclear power, the United States.

    Since 1989, there has not been a reason for any major power confrontation.

    So though WW2 ended 70 years ago, only 25 of those years (1964-89) truly featured situations where MAD would've been applicable. And during that time the U.S. and U.S.S.R. lurched from one major confrontation to the other in 1967, 1973, 1979, 1983.

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons entered into force in 1970. All countries that already possessed nuclear weapons were allowed to retain them: United States, France, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, People's Republic of China. All other signatoriies have agreed not to develop nuclear weapons. Iran has signed the treaty. India, Israel, and Pakistan have not, and so are not bound by it. North Korea withdrew from the treaty in 2003.

    So, by treaty, all countries that currently have nukes are either allowed to have them under the Non-Proliferation treaty, or are not signatories. Iran is a signatory and in violation of the treaty.
    Well said.

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    so, your position is that there have been no military targets since nagasaki?
    No, I asked what targets have been attacked [with nuclear weapons] since Nagasaki. Are you able to answer?
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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    Well for one, until about 1964, there was only one real nuclear power, the United States.
    the soviet's joe1 was detonated in '49

    Since 1989, there has not been a reason for any major power confrontation.
    there have been military operations by atomic powers since '89
    but you are welcome to share with us why there were no uses of atomic weapons between '49 and '89 except because of MAD

    So though WW2 ended 70 years ago, only 25 of those years (1964-89) truly featured situations where MAD would've been applicable. And during that time the U.S. and U.S.S.R. lurched from one major confrontation to the other in 1967, 1973, 1979, 1983.
    and in no instance was an atomic weapon used. the foremost weapon of the day. now, tell us again why that was not MAD at work
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No, I asked what targets have been attacked [with nuclear weapons] since Nagasaki. Are you able to answer?
    none in war. which underscores my point that MAD has worked
    now, you had a point; what was it?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    That would be an Obama foreign policy success. Had John McCain won in 2008, we'd have long ago bomb bomb bomb, bomb bombed Iran, with the applause and support of the fringe right that lurks about this place.
    It's a shame Obama was never elected, or Wed be enjoying universal healthcare, higher taxes on the wealthy, and a robust middle class.

    Such a shame he lost his elections...
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    The Russians did not have a reliable nuclear arsenal they could deliver against the U.S. until 1964 with their first decent ICBMs.

    From 1964 to 1989, most of the major power confrontations took place well away from each sides primary sphere of influence and direct interests so there was little incentive to escalate further.

    Location had more to do with avoidance of nuclear confrontation than MAD.

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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the soviet's joe1 was detonated in '49


    there have been military operations by atomic powers since '89
    but you are welcome to share with us why there were no uses of atomic weapons between '49 and '89 except because of MAD

    and in no instance was an atomic weapon used. the foremost weapon of the day. now, tell us again why that was not MAD at work
    And incidents where it could have gone to hell.
    NOVA | False Alarms in the Nuclear Age
    Since the late 1970s, Russian and American missileers have each come close twice to launching nuclear missiles in response to a perceived attack under way from the other side. Here, MIT's Geoffrey Forden supplies the details of those harrowing events.

    The Cuban Missile Crisis and nuclear testing: CTBTO Preparatory Commission

    Soviet naval officer Vasili Arkhipov vetoed the launch of the nuclear torpedo.

    Later that same evening, in waters near Cuba, the destroyer USS Cony fired depth charges near a Soviet B-59 submarine in an effort to force the soviet submarine to the surface. Cut off from communications with Moscow, and under the impression that war had started, Captain Vitali Grigorievitch Savitsky wanted to retaliate by launching the nuclear-tipped torpedo warhead that the vessel was carrying. The United States did not know of this nuclear armament. However, naval officer Vasili Arkhipov refused to grant his authorization that was required for the nuclear attack and persuaded the captain to surface and await orders from Moscow. This fact was only revealed in 2002 at a conference to mark the 40th anniversary of the crisis.
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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    And incidents where it could have gone to hell.
    NOVA | False Alarms in the Nuclear Age
    Since the late 1970s, Russian and American missileers have each come close twice to launching nuclear missiles in response to a perceived attack under way from the other side. Here, MIT's Geoffrey Forden supplies the details of those harrowing events.

    The Cuban Missile Crisis and nuclear testing: CTBTO Preparatory Commission

    Soviet naval officer Vasili Arkhipov vetoed the launch of the nuclear torpedo.

    Later that same evening, in waters near Cuba, the destroyer USS Cony fired depth charges near a Soviet B-59 submarine in an effort to force the soviet submarine to the surface. Cut off from communications with Moscow, and under the impression that war had started, Captain Vitali Grigorievitch Savitsky wanted to retaliate by launching the nuclear-tipped torpedo warhead that the vessel was carrying. The United States did not know of this nuclear armament. However, naval officer Vasili Arkhipov refused to grant his authorization that was required for the nuclear attack and persuaded the captain to surface and await orders from Moscow. This fact was only revealed in 2002 at a conference to mark the 40th anniversary of the crisis.
    again, NO instance of an atomic weapon used upon an enemy since nagasaki in august '45
    please explain why that was NOT MAD at work
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  10. #210
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    Re: Iran's Khamenei says could accept fair nuclear compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    The Russians did not have a reliable nuclear arsenal they could deliver against the U.S. until 1964 with their first decent ICBMs.

    From 1964 to 1989, most of the major power confrontations took place well away from each sides primary sphere of influence and direct interests so there was little incentive to escalate further.

    Location had more to do with avoidance of nuclear confrontation than MAD.
    were the only nuclear weapons used in war placed using an ICBM?
    that excuse won't flush

    i remember participating in nuclear drills in school as early as 1957 ... well before the 1964 date you cite as nuclear warfare against the USA being a possibility
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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