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Thread: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

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    Re: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    The GOP mindset on war has changed great deal since Eisenhower... Eisenhower warned us of the Military Industrial Complex and its need for conflict and war, while today's GOP, and a great deal of Democrats seem to embrace it and promote its policies and profits.
    No kidding!! The fringe right I would think would refrain from rolling out Eisenhower, his values being so far removed from theirs. He also said that he opposed the use of the nuclear bomb on Japan on two counts, one, that Japan was already preparing to surrender, and two that he hated to see the US be the first country to use that awful weapon. Nope, he doesn't look anything like the GOP today.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Hey MMC, seems my point flew above you. The poster I was responding to suggested that "lying to get Americans into a war where Americans are killed is unacceptable", and I pointed out that that is true, unless a republican president does it. As evedenced by the very fact that he and yourself excuse Bush for having done exactly the same thing, with far greater cost to America then anything in Libya. What would be refreshing is for you and the rest of the partisans on BOTH sides of the isle to call out such behavior every time it happens, not just when it's the other party. But history has shown that the partisan values his party over his country, so that's not likely to change.

    Well, Monte your theory would work if I had supported Bush Jr....so that is just the usual deflection while you bash the US for not being Angels on Earth. As a Matter of fact with even the US having been in the Right with dealing in any conflict. You always manage to point out what the US did that was wrong.

    What would be refreshing is to see you throw that change up.....and not blame the US even for problems started by others outside the US.

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    Re: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well, Monte your theory would work if I had supported Bush Jr....so that is just the usual deflection while you bash the US for not being Angels on Earth. As a Matter of fact with even the US having been in the Right with dealing in any conflict. You always manage to point out what the US did that was wrong.

    What would be refreshing is to see you throw that change up.....and not blame the US even for problems started by others outside the US.
    Are you suggesting you didn't/don't support Bush's Iraq war?? Which military interventions have I blamed on the US, that were actually the fault of another country?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Are you suggesting you didn't/don't support Bush's Iraq war?? Which military interventions have I blamed on the US, that were actually the fault of another country?
    Well, most of that ME stuff Monte pretty much all goes back to Churchill when it comes to the West. Like I said.....any conflict, but to be honest. I at least haven't heard you blame the US for starting WWII nor WWI.


    Albeit you did condemn us for using the Nukes on Japan.

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    Re: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well, most of that ME stuff Monte pretty much all goes back to Churchill when it comes to the West. Like I said.....any conflict, but to be honest. I at least haven't heard you blame the US for starting WWII nor WWI.


    Albeit you did condemn us for using the Nukes on Japan.
    It's true that the US and the UK have been shaking up the Middle East for a century, better. I've never seen anything that would support the notion that the US started either of the world wars. I have been critical of FDR's provocations of the Japanese and the Germans which drew us into the two blemishes on humanity. And yes, of course I condemn the use of a nuclear bomb on civilian (really any) targets. And I'm satisfied that if, pick a non Western country, say had Gaddafi had the means to drop a nuke on Paris and destroy it as we did Hiroshima, you would have condemned it as an act of terrorism, though Gaddafi would have claimed he was attempting to survive, and drive back a French led attack on his country.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's true that the US and the UK have been shaking up the Middle East for a century, better. I've never seen anything that would support the notion that the US started either of the world wars. I have been critical of FDR's provocations of the Japanese and the Germans which drew us into the two blemishes on humanity. And yes, of course I condemn the use of a nuclear bomb on civilian (really any) targets. And I'm satisfied that if, pick a non Western country, say had Gaddafi had the means to drop a nuke on Paris and destroy it as we did Hiroshima, you would have condemned it as an act of terrorism, though Gaddafi would have claimed he was attempting to survive, and drive back a French led attack on his country.

    Yet even here you try. As until Churchill opens it up....the US has no play whatsoever. Its recorded history, documented and with all sorts of documentaries on it.

    So no....the US wasn't doing any shaking until brought on board and asked to do so by all sides.

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    Re: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yet even here you try. As until Churchill opens it up....the US has no play whatsoever. Its recorded history, documented and with all sorts of documentaries on it.

    So no....the US wasn't doing any shaking until brought on board and asked to do so by all sides.
    Sorry but NO!

    Middle Eastern oil has enchanted global powers and global capital since the early twentieth century. Its allure has been particularly powerful for the United States. The American romance began in earnest in the 1930s, when geologists working for Standard Oil of California discovered commercial quantities of oil on the eastern shores of Saudi Arabia. In the years that followed, enchantment turned into obsession. Shortly after World War II it became clear that oil was more than merely a coveted industrial commodity. The most visible and celebrated event in that history occurred when Franklin D. Roosevelt hosted ‘Abd al-‘Aziz Ibn Saud, the founding monarch of Saudi Arabia, aboard the USS Quincy on Egypt’s Great Bitter Lake in February 1945. The meeting permanently linked Middle Eastern oil with American national security.


    America, Oil, and War in the Middle East

    By the way, I won't argue with you that the UK was in their before the US. It was opened up by the defeat of the Ottoman Empire, and much restructuring, remapping, but as pointed out, the US has been there in earnest since 1930. And took full control in the 60's and do you recall Carter's inaugural address and his tough talk to anybody that threatened US hegemony in the region??
    Last edited by Montecresto; 02-12-15 at 07:29 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Sorry but NO!

    Middle Eastern oil has enchanted global powers and global capital since the early twentieth century. Its allure has been particularly powerful for the United States. The American romance began in earnest in the 1930s, when geologists working for Standard Oil of California discovered commercial quantities of oil on the eastern shores of Saudi Arabia. In the years that followed, enchantment turned into obsession. Shortly after World War II it became clear that oil was more than merely a coveted industrial commodity. The most visible and celebrated event in that history occurred when Franklin D. Roosevelt hosted ‘Abd al-‘Aziz Ibn Saud, the founding monarch of Saudi Arabia, aboard the USS Quincy on Egypt’s Great Bitter Lake in February 1945. The meeting permanently linked Middle Eastern oil with American national security.


    America, Oil, and War in the Middle East


    Sorry, but Yes.....and from your own link Monte. Nice try though with your Anti American rhetoric. Did you want to try and go back and blame the US for Who really was sitting on that perch and long before 1930? What happened?


    In a rush to secure and expand their own supplies in the region, the British landed an expeditionary force near Basra in what is now Iraq in 1914. By 1918 the British captured Baghdad and ensconced themselves and their allies there, a perch from which they projected power for several decades. 5 American ascendance in the Persian Gulf later in the century created a new pattern of militarism and war.....snip~


    Those that have been teaching you abroad. Should make sure they include all of history and not just their notion of it.

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    Re: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well, and lest not forget the false narrative of him using the excuse that Hillary Clinton was the sole reason for what took place with Libya. That's just more of that made up BS from leftests that like to play with terminology while taking things out of context. Their usual limitation.

    Clearly none has come out and said Libya was cause by Clinton and she is the whole reason around why what happened there.....did.

    But you know how they like to make **** up on the fly.....while they apply it to the mix of what is real.
    Its all spin all the time.

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    Re: Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Of course it matters. You are saying the truth does not matter?


    And I agree. No where did I say I disagree. But then again I find your statements to possibly be incredibly ironic.
    More of the dance of the liberal. Hillary really lied and really got Americans killed after really accusing others of doing the same.

    Its called hypocrisy, and its not going to help her in 2016.

    I say again-the left can't ever hold the moral high ground because they are incapable.

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