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Thread: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    One would have to be really dense or just purposely obtuse in order to miss the point of what Obama was saying.
    Obama was trying to point out that the "Christians" in the KKK who did lynchings were not behaving in a manner condoned by the Christian religion and for them to say that they were acting as Christians was crap; just as it is crap for ISIS so say that they are acting as Muslims. They might be Muslims but their behavior is not according to their religion. It is political. It isn't about religion, it is about power. Seems that we have to watch all those "men of God" especially when they stray from the religious and start pontificating about the secular. God: Though shall not kill. Satan: Kill, but do it in God's name.
    You make the common misunderstanding that Islam is not political in nature. In fact, unlike Christianity, it is very political and some research will confirm this. You can easily spot the difference in countries where Islam has taken hold and Sharia Law introduced.

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I think you've proven my point quite well. I asked you how you would feel if the US government called Timothy McVeighs a Conservative Extremist. There was nothing about Christianity, yet you took it as an attack on Christianity.

    People who believe very deeply in their religion are often extremely quick to take offence at any perceived slight. I mean, there's supposedly a "war" on Christmas because some people say Happy Holidays. Think about that, someone posts a sign that says happy holidays and a large group of people feel that their religion is under attack. It' safe to assume that the Islamic world is going to be at least that irrational.

    Isis knows this. Their goal is for the US government to attack them while calling them Islamists. That's what they're trying to do. Why should we give them what they want?
    I think we are smarter than that, at the levels that make those decisions don't you? At least I hope so...In any case, as long as we can hold out for another year and a half, we can get, hopefully, some competent leadership in DC again.
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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think we are smarter than that, at the levels that make those decisions don't you? At least I hope so...In any case, as long as we can hold out for another year and a half, we can get, hopefully, some competent leadership in DC again.
    Smarter than that? Well I think we certainly are acting intelligently now, but there is a push to do dumb things that feel good and play well domestically.

    Labelling Isis as Islamic may feel good. It may score political points. But it hurts American interests and makes us less safe. Isis wants a holy war so they can recruit more Muslims. Labelling them as Islamic makes that easier. They don't get to fight a holy war unless we say that they represent Islam. More Americans would die if the President conflated ISIS with Islam.

    And this is a great litmus test. If you see a public leader making a huge deal of labelling ISIS as Islamic, then they are primarily interested in scoring points domestically. They're not interested in actually making us safer or combating terrorism abroad.

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Smarter than that? Well I think we certainly are acting intelligently now, but there is a push to do dumb things that feel good and play well domestically.

    Labelling Isis as Islamic may feel good. It may score political points. But it hurts American interests and makes us less safe. Isis wants a holy war so they can recruit more Muslims. Labelling them as Islamic makes that easier. They don't get to fight a holy war unless we say that they represent Islam. More Americans would die if the President conflated ISIS with Islam.

    And this is a great litmus test. If you see a public leader making a huge deal of labelling ISIS as Islamic, then they are primarily interested in scoring points domestically. They're not interested in actually making us safer or combating terrorism abroad.
    People will label ISIS as Islamic because it is Islamic. It is not the Islam many might prefer but unless it is going against the words of their prophet, like it or not, it is Islam. Worrying about propaganda for these scum, while thousands are being raped and butchered, seems the least of the problems.

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Smarter than that? Well I think we certainly are acting intelligently now, but there is a push to do dumb things that feel good and play well domestically.

    Labelling Isis as Islamic may feel good. It may score political points. But it hurts American interests and makes us less safe. Isis wants a holy war so they can recruit more Muslims. Labelling them as Islamic makes that easier. They don't get to fight a holy war unless we say that they represent Islam. More Americans would die if the President conflated ISIS with Islam.

    And this is a great litmus test. If you see a public leader making a huge deal of labelling ISIS as Islamic, then they are primarily interested in scoring points domestically. They're not interested in actually making us safer or combating terrorism abroad.
    Seems to me you can't fight an enemy you refuse to even name.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yeah, we have known each other so long that I guess some of that is inevitable. However, as you portray yourself to be the more measured one, you'd think that you would want to be the bigger person. I guess not....:
    I think I have been. But that is neither here nor there. The point is this entire thread is yet one more ODS overreaction with no consideration as to what the real reasons might be. This is too typical of these discussions. Anytime anyone whats to seriously discuss an issue, I'm more than willing. You have even commented on other discussions I've been in and the reasonableness there. When you commented on those, I asked you to explore the difference in the issue, the tone, and the willingness of the person I talk to address exactly what i say, and not the silliness you andothers tend to attach with nothing in the words I write to merit doing so.

    But, I'll do either. As always, it's your choice.

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Seems to me you can't fight an enemy you refuse to even name.
    Is the enemy Islam?

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Is the enemy Islam?
    Islam? not necessarily, but they are Islamic.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Is the enemy Islam?
    While those who are creating terror throughout the world are Muslims, terrorism is endorsed or sympathized with, in general, about about 50% of Muslims, depending on which country the poll is taken. For example, 27% of Muslims in England, once a very civilized country, sympathized with the murders of the Charley Hebdo employees, a black mark against any group of people.

    The sad fact is that Islam has never offered a great deal to the world except poverty, oppression, a variety of phobias and terrorism.

    But f you can name something positive about this religion and its adherents, I'd be pleased to learn what it is. I can also understand any reluctance to be too critical of them. American Blogger Hacked to Death by Muslim Mob for Criticizing Islamic Extremism in Bangladesh

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Islam? not necessarily, but they are Islamic.
    If the enemy is not Islam, why would you intentionally antagonize them? There are 1.6 Billion Muslims world wide and something like half of them are devout fundamentalists. Currently fundamentalist Sunni's and fundamentalist Shiites have joined together to fight ISIS. Lumping the people fighting on our side with the people fighting against us is silly.


    And this idea that we're pretending that they're not Islamic extremists is ridiculous. Have you noticed that we were aware of every single one of the terrorists like the Boston bombers. Why? Because we watch all the Islamic extremists. We know the people that are most likely to strike against us.

    Publicly making statements against Islam is counterproductive, irresponsible, and is giving aid and comfort to our enemies.

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