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Thread: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    That right there tells me you completely misunderstood the argument I was making (perhaps purposely). Mine wasn't a flat out comparison, i.e., "Muslim extremist good, Christian Crusaders evil." You know very well that wasn't the argument I was presenting. I merely pointed out that during the Crusades, Christians committed evil acts in the name of their God on behalf of their Christian faith just as Muslims committed evil acts in the name of their God on behalf of their Islamic faith, too. And that was the point of listing the time frames 632, 850, 1026, 1050, 1088, and 1098 because each makes this point very clear.



    Oh, yes you were. But my point is now made. All you had to do was acknowledge the truth of it.



    That's not entirely true. From the his National Prayer Breakfast speech, 11th paragraph, 2nd sentence:



    So, while he didn't say "Muslims" in that passage, he made it clear that those who are claiming to be following the teachings of the Islamic faith are, in fact, distorting it. And who follows the teachings of Islam? Muslims. Now, it's true he doesn't outright mention their past aggressive and barbaric acts. That much is true. So, to your point his speech doesn't take both Muslims and Christians to task for their past aggressions. But that wasn't the point of the speech. It wasn't about which religious group committed the worst atrocities moreso than the other. It was about:



    If you'd cared to just listen to the speech or read it, then you would have known exactly what his point was. But as usual, folks are too busy trying to press their own agenda to see through their own ideological mud slinging that all they can see is the partisan view that they either create or one that is thrust before them as believable truth. I'm with you, however, in that the President should have given a history lesson on the evils Muslim extremist have done in the past as well, but it's disingenuous to suggest he never called out radical Islam or that Christians of the distant and recent past haven't used their faith to do evil as well.
    I no, I understand you and then Obama's argument just fine, which is, "Christians have no right to criticize Islamic terrorism, because the Christians did the same thing during the Crusades".

    Neither, Obama, nor yourself mentioned Muslim aggression that took place prior to, during and since the Crusades, except for the recent violence.

    It was an attempt to give make the impression that Christian violence is a thousand years old and Muslim violence is a very recent occurance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This is so trite, so banal, that any President expressing these mundane thoughts should be booed off the stage.

    Of course Christians have acted badly in the past. So have Jews, Chinese, UN workers, the French, Red Cross employees, Hindus, Teachers Unions, and every damned group in the history of mankind. Does this really need explaining? Or mentioning? No, of course not. We all know that, or should. Then, if we all accept this as common knowledge, why did BHO even bother mentioning it? Was this a recent insight of his?

    The dumbing down of the Presidency has now clearly led to the dumbing down of public discourse.
    That may be but I have to ask, "Why do you care so much what happens in America's national politics?" Your location: Canada, Costa Rica. As such, would I be incorrect in assuming you're Canadian? And if so, why does it matter to you what an American President says or does? What's your angle? Not saying you don't have a right to your opinion or even to express it. I'm just curious why what an America President says or does matters so much to you?
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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you view these radical jihadist attacks as just anomalies carried out by just a few, contrary to their own stated goals, and support documented amongst the wider Muslim community?

    I mean, sure you can show me individual cases of mentally disturbed acts, but nothing on the scale of what is going on today with ISIS and it is patently dishonest to equate the two in any way.
    They are larger, but that is based on political realities and not religious ones. We'd see it just as large here if the political realities matched theirs. The point is that religion doesn't create the terrorist, but is used by evil people to both recruit and justify. The mistake is in blaming the religion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    No, the shooter was not acting on religous motivations.

    Rather, he was of nominally Christian background and stated that his motivation was racial / nationalistic, (shooter perceived all muslims as being a different race and therefore, not part of the US nation). It is much the same way with terror acts committed by various Kurdish groups in Turkey. Sure, the usually leftist Kurds are of nominal muslim background. They are not, however, "muslim" extremists. Rather, they are socio poltical extremists who attack Turks.
    Neither groups are acting on religious grounds. Both have people who use religion as justification, as backing for their evil. Whether one is a Muslim extremist or a Christian extremist, the key word is extremist and not either Muslim or Christian.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They are larger, but that is based on political realities and not religious ones. We'd see it just as large here if the political realities matched theirs. The point is that religion doesn't create the terrorist, but is used by evil people to both recruit and justify. The mistake is in blaming the religion.
    I can't agree with that. The most orthodox Islamic texts--the Koran itself, the hadith, which interpret it through the sayings of Mohammed, and the Reliance of the Traveler, the 14th century text which spells out shari'ah in detail--justify much of the violence Muslim jihadists engage in. That is not to say none of them ever does things no Islamic authority approves, but in general their savagery is right in line with Mohammed's own extremely violent career.

    It would have been more accurate of Mr. B. Hussein Obama to say that most of the people in the world who identify themselves as Muslims are only as peaceful and tolerant as they are because they don't observe their religion very conscientiously. Who does he think he is, to claim the tenets of Islam really are not what its official texts say they are?

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I no, I understand you and then Obama's argument just fine, which is, "Christians have no right to criticize Islamic terrorism, because the Christians did the same thing during the Crusades".

    Neither, Obama, nor yourself mentioned Muslim aggression that took place prior to, during and since the Crusades, except for the recent violence.

    It was an attempt to give make the impression that Christian violence is a thousand years old and Muslim violence is a very recent occurance.
    None of what you've stated was my position at all. Mine was as plain and simple as I've stated it: That people from both regions have committed violence in the name of their God and on behalf of their religious faith. Period. Nothing more and nothing less.

    I didn't point out Muslim atrocities initially - neither past nor present - because the truth of their atrocities was and IS plainly evident.

    I didn't outline the atrocities of Jews or Hindus or any other religious group because they weren't the focal point of the debate at hand. But the acts of those Christians who took part in the Crusades was. And as such, pointing out that Christians did, in fact, use their religion to commit atrocities in the name of their religious faith and their God was the only point of relevance worth making based on the thread topic. And while I will concede (again) that the President didn't take both Muslims and Christians to task for their past aggressions, that really wasn't the point of his speech. The point was: "What are we as people of faith doing today to check ourselves AND confront evil?" And if you missed that, well...I've got nothing for you.
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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    None of what you've stated was my position at all. Mine was as plain and simple as I've stated it: That people from both regions have committed violence in the name of their God and on behalf of their religious faith. Period. Nothing more and nothing less.

    I didn't point out Muslim atrocities initially - neither past nor present - because the truth of their atrocities was and IS plainly evident.

    I didn't outline the atrocities of Jews or Hindus or any other religious group because they weren't the focal point of the debate at hand. But the acts of those Christians who took part in the Crusades was. And as such, pointing out that Christians did, in fact, use their religion to commit atrocities in the name of their religious faith and their God was the only point of relevance worth making based on the thread topic. And while I will concede (again) that the President didn't take both Muslims and Christians to task for their past aggressions, that really wasn't the point of his speech. The point was: "What are we as people of faith doing today to check ourselves AND confront evil?" And if you missed that, well...I've got nothing for you.
    You didn't point out any religion's atrocities, because the objective was to villanize Christians, in order to excuse the islamofacists. It's the dame phony argument, that the Muslims aren't responsible for Muslim atrocities, someone else is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You didn't point out any religion's atrocities, because the objective was to villanize Christians, in order to excuse the islamofacists. It's the dame phony argument, that the Muslims aren't responsible for Muslim atrocities, someone else is.
    What some do not wish to look at is whether Christianity is producing groups that go out to murder, maim, destroy, terrorize in the 21st century in the name of Christ. I'm sure those who know of such groups will be happy to point us to them. I honestly can't think of any other than the Westboro Baptists and they do what they do for personal profit and so far as I know they don't murder or destroy things.

    It is undeniable that Islam is producing groups that have no conscience about murder, maiming, destroying, threating, terrorizing, and oppressing others all in the name of Allah. Wiki has pulled together a list that probably reflects most terrorist groups in modern times. Here and there you can find a non-Islamic group among the many, many listed. But most are indeed Islamic.
    List of designated terrorist organizations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Bush lied. Does this mean rightist lie? Don't you see how stupid you're being?
    Bush lied??? Another Leftist lie!

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You miss the point again. How am I do get through to you? I doubt anyone who does this is stuff is actually Christian or Muslim for that matter. They use religion. This is the point being made by Obama and by me.
    Boo Radley, you are a leftist and thus cannot 'get through' to those with some understanding of history and with some political knowledge. I recall very well how you were laughably touting Obamacare as a money saver and good for the American people. Gruber had your type nailed, and so do I and many others.

    You and Obama, a genuine liar, should get off your own high horses and admit to all the lies made, and the lies swallowed, by liberals such as yourself..

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