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Thread: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

  1. #281
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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Confessing that I have not read the entire thread before posting, apologies if somebody else has posted this. But the Rev. Franklin Graham posted this on Facebook after the President's offensive remarks at the Prayer Breakfast:

    “Today at the National Prayer Breakfast, the president implied that what ISIS is doing is equivalent to what happened over 1,000 years ago during the Crusades and the Inquisition, Rev. Graham wrote. “Mr. President — Many people in history have used the name of Jesus Christ to accomplish evil things for their own desires. But Jesus taught peace, love and forgiveness. He came to give His life for the sins of mankind, not to take life.”

    “Muhammad on the contrary was a warrior and killed many innocent people. True followers of Christ emulate Christ — true followers of Muhammad emulate Muhammad.”

    Even so, nobody would have thought anything about it--he might have gotten a standing "O" in fact--if Obama had said that those who commit such atrocities in the name of Allah dishonor peaceful Muslims everywhere and should merit their contempt and condemnation just as those who committed atrocities under the banner of Christianity deserve the contempt and condemnation of true followers of Christ's teachings.

    The problem he has is that Jesus of Nazareth did teach peace, forgiveness, tolerance, common sense, and love. And he led or sent nobody into battle to kill, maim, or destroy. Nobody can say that of Mohammed, the Qu'ran or the Hadith.
    Someone finally gets it! I read threads on this site, and others, and shake my head because most people really don't have a clue about Islam. ISIS IS ISLAM because they do exactly what Mohammad did and would do if he were alive today. Any Muslim who does not realise this, should probably leave their religion.....oops, they risk death if they do in Muslim countries. People I respect and admire are those Muslims who become apostates...it takes real courage to critically look at Mohammad and Islam and come to realise that "moderate Islam" is against real Islam and what Mohammad would do.

  2. #282
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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyMoonlight View Post
    Someone finally gets it! I read threads on this site, and others, and shake my head because most people really don't have a clue about Islam. ISIS IS ISLAM because they do exactly what Mohammad did and would do if he were alive today. Any Muslim who does not realise this, should probably leave their religion.....oops, they risk death if they do in Muslim countries. People I respect and admire are those Muslims who become apostates...it takes real courage to critically look at Mohammad and Islam and come to realise that "moderate Islam" is against real Islam and what Mohammad would do.
    I mostly agree with this. I do know Muslims who have rejected the jihadist mentality and who are perfectly happy to co-exist with and cooperate with Christians, Jews, and people of all other faiths. But they do so at their personal peril because once they reject the notion that their sole mission in life is to put all the Earth under the authority of Allah by any means at their disposal, or that their duty is not to avenge an insult to Mohammed or whatever, they become apostate and subject to Islamic discipline. And that can include stoning to death, beheading, or burning alive or any number of means used to punish the infidel.

    Anybody can pick up a translation of the Qu-ran or Hadith and find words and phrases that suggest a peaceful, tolerant, and forgiving religion. But a careful look at those phrases can almost invariably be interpreted as applying to MUSLIMS, and not to infidels. And there are many other passages that not only give consent to but demand violence to all who refuse to worship Allah and/or obey his laws and that applies to all men, women, children or errant Muslims.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I mostly agree with this. I do know Muslims who have rejected the jihadist mentality and who are perfectly happy to co-exist with and cooperate with Christians, Jews, and people of all other faiths. But they do so at their personal peril because once they reject the notion that their sole mission in life is to put all the Earth under the authority of Allah by any means at their disposal, or that their duty is not to avenge an insult to Mohammed or whatever, they become apostate and subject to Islamic discipline. And that can include stoning to death, beheading, or burning alive or any number of means used to punish the infidel.

    Anybody can pick up a translation of the Qu-ran or Hadith and find words and phrases that suggest a peaceful, tolerant, and forgiving religion. But a careful look at those phrases can almost invariably be interpreted as applying to MUSLIMS, and not to infidels. And there are many other passages that not only give consent to but demand violence to all who refuse to worship Allah and/or obey his laws and that applies to all men, women, children or errant Muslims.
    If one read the Koran, there are passages that refer to Christians and Jews as "people of the books" or followers of the abrahamic concept of one god.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    In other words, Islam does not yet permit its adherents to evolve into a peaceful religion that is an asset to the world as Christianity has done. And our President doesn't seem to understand that or appreciate the danger that militant Islam presents to peace on Earth and/or the welfare of its people.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    If one read the Koran, there are passages that refer to Christians and Jews as "people of the books" or followers of the abrahamic concept of one god.
    But putting those passages into context, it is nevertheless the duty of Islam to bring those Christians and Jews under the authority of Allah and to destroy all who resist.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But putting those passages into context, it is nevertheless the duty of Islam to bring those Christians and Jews under the authority of Allah and to destroy all who resist.
    Did the Islamic kingdom in Spain persucute Christians and Jews?
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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    If one read the Koran, there are passages that refer to Christians and Jews as "people of the books" or followers of the abrahamic concept of one god.
    Please remember the word Abrogation...all of the nice verses in the Quran (which were stolen from Judaism) are abrogated.

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Did the Islamic kingdom in Spain persucute Christians and Jews?
    In the beginning (8th Century) not so much though Christians and Jews were certainly second class citizens to the Muslim heirarchy. But they were allowed a certain autonomy and there was some syncretization (merging) of the Muslim cultural customs with both Jewish and Christian customs. By the 11th Century, however, the original Muslim heirarchy had broken down into various factions and the strongest of these were friendly to neither Jews nor Christians. The Jews especially were subjected to harsh treatment including the slaughter of many. When the Christians managed to defeat Islam in Spain, they weren't quite so barbaric, but they did expel most or all of the Jews from Spain as well as most Muslim, especially under the regime of Ferdinand and Isabella. The methods look intolerant and cruel now, but under the culture of those times, it was the way to restore stability and peace within the Iberian people.

    So again we cannot look to history to define who the religious among us are today. We should judge people by who and what they are now, and not what their ancesters once were. And who would you feel safer being among doing your own thing now? Christians? Jews? Or militant Islam? It is pretty much a no brainer, isn't it.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    In the beginning (8th Century) not so much though Christians and Jews were certainly second class citizens to the Muslim heirarchy. But they were allowed a certain autonomy and there was some syncretization (merging) of the Muslim cultural customs with both Jewish and Christian customs. By the 11th Century, however, the original Muslim heirarchy had broken down into various factions and the strongest of these were friendly to neither Jews nor Christians. The Jews especially were subjected to harsh treatment including the slaughter of many. When the Christians managed to defeat Islam in Spain, they weren't quite so barbaric, but they did expel most or all of the Jews from Spain as well as most Muslim, especially under the regime of Ferdinand and Isabella. The methods look intolerant and cruel now, but under the culture of those times, it was the way to restore stability and peace within the Iberian people.

    So again we cannot look to history to define who the religious among us are today. We should judge people by who and what they are now, and not what their ancesters once were. And who would you feel safer being among doing your own thing now? Christians? Jews? Or militant Islam? It is pretty much a no brainer, isn't it.
    I think nature itself has given all of mankind the idea of god.

    ISIS are fanatics, pure and simple.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Hilliary Clinton/Tim Kaine 2016

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    Re: Obama condemns those who seek to 'hijack religion'

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And those who are determined to condemn somebody are not at all interested in the whole story that led up to something like the Iraq invasion and are unwilling to look at all the facts. They want to focus on those they want to accuse and dismiss everything else as irrelevent. Sad actually. And we see the same phenomenon in those who don't want to see Obama's speech in its full context, but who are more than willing to justify his condemnation of Christians in it.
    They were indifferent to the genocide and mass murders being carried out by Saddam Hussein and indifferent now to the plight of those Muslims and Christians now suffering under ISL, Al Qaeda and Boco Harom. They believe that right is doing nothing to help their fellow man.

    It was the same during the Cold War. They are not worthy of anyone's respect.

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