NATO to bolster forces in eastern Europe against threat from Russia

face your · Feb 6, 2015

<<<CONTINUED>>>

Then what happened next is Russia invaded, occupied, installed an occupation government with Spec Ops holding AKs and rocket launchers in the Crimean parliamentary building during the swearing in of a new Crimean "prime minister" and this was followed by the outright illegal annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory by the Russian Federation through a fraudulent and illegal referendum in which only two options were offered cessation or annexation rather than maintaining the status quo and which violated both the Crimean and Ukrainian Constitutions:

Following the Ukrainian revolution, on February 27 an emergency session was held in the Crimean legislature while it was occupied by armed pro-Russian forces.[4] The masked gunmen identified themselves as members of Crimea’s "self-defense forces", all of which are, according to Aksyonov, directly under his control.[4] After sealing the doors and confiscating all mobile phones, the MPs who had been invited by Aksyonov to enter the building, passed the motion in the presence of the gunmen armed with Kalashnikov's and rocket launchers.[11][4][12][9]

Sergey Aksyonov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As we ALL know by now those so called "self defense forces" are Russian troops not wearing a fixed insignia in overt violation of the laws and customs of war as proven by video recordings of them admitting that they are Russian troops, as well as, the types of uniforms and weapons they are carrying which are exclusive to Russian special forces, not to mention that Russia has finally admitted it:

The presence of Russian troops is acknowledged by new Crimean leader Sergei Aksyenov.[56] The troops were subsequently identified, based on their battle dress and equipment, as belonging to the 45th Spetsnaz Regiment, which has previously been deployed to conflicts such as Georgia and Kyrgyzstan.[80]

2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aksenov acknowledged Saturday that Russian troops were protecting key sites in Crimea.

“We have established cooperation with the Black Sea Fleet in protecting the important assets,” Aksenov said in televised remarks. “I am sure they can carry out tasks to protect public order.”

New Crimea leaders move up referendum date - LA Times

Crimea Invaded By High Readiness Forces Of The Russian Federation

Unknown soldiers - upper picture.

- New EMR camouflage combat uniforms used only by Russian Federation forces

- New 6sh112 tactical vest used only by Russian Federation forces

- New 6B27 composite helmet used only by Russian Federation forces

- New 7,62 mm PKP machine guns used only by Russian Federation forces

- Russian 5,45 mm AK74M assault rifles

As a conclusion it is evident that the troops in question are high readiness troops of the Russian Federation.

Unknonw soldiers - lower picture.

- 6B26 composite helmets used only by airborne troops of the Russian Federation

- Russian 5,45 mm AK74M assault rifles

Soldier on the left:

- New EMR-camouflage combat uniform used only by Russian Federation forces

- 6SH92-5 tactical vest used only by airborne troops of the Russian Federation

Soldier on the right:

- Russian special forces and mountain troops Gorka-3 combat uniform used only by Russian Federation forces

- Russian special forces Smersh AK/VOG tactical vest used only by Russian Federation forces

With a 99 % probability we argue that these troops are the 45th Guards Separate Reconnaissance Regiment of VDV (Russian: 45-й гвардейский отдельный разведывательный ордена Александра Невского полк ВДВ), Kubinka, Moscow.

Crimea Invaded By High Readiness Forces Of The Russian Federation | Suomen Sotilas

<<<CONTINUED BELOW>>>

face your · Feb 6, 2015

<<<CONTINUED>>>

Ukraine crisis: 'Russians' occupy Crimea airports

The BBC has seen eight trucks with the black plates of the Russian army moving towards Simferopol

Unconfirmed reports say eight Russian military helicopters have arrived in Sevastopol

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: 'Russians' occupy Crimea airports[/QUOTE]

Ukraine crisis: 'Russians' occupy Crimea airports

The BBC has seen eight trucks with the black plates of the Russian army moving towards Simferopol

Unconfirmed reports say eight Russian military helicopters have arrived in Sevastopol

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: 'Russians' occupy Crimea airports

Russia has vowed its troops will remain in Ukraine to protect Russian interests and citizens until the political situation has been "normalised".

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Russia was defending human rights against "ultra-nationalist threats".

Russia is now in de facto military control of the Crimea region, despite Western condemnation of a "violation of Ukraine's sovereignty".

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Russia vows troops will stay

Russian foreign ministry admits to entering Crimea from its Black Sea Fleet base as the Ukraine's interior minister accuses country of 'armed invasion'

Ukraine crisis live: President Barack Obama warns of 'costs' for any violation of Ukraine - Telegraph

Russia admits that it has moved troops in Ukraine
Russia has finally confirmed that it has moved troops into Ukraine's restive Crimea region, after speculation about Moscow's involvement

Russia admits that it has moved troops in Ukraine - Telegraph
Article 72.

An All-Ukrainian referendum is designated by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine or by the President of Ukraine, in accordance with their authority established by this Constitution.

An All-Ukrainian referendum is called on popular initiative on the request of no less than three million citizens of Ukraine who have the right to vote, on the condition that the signatures in favour of designating the referendum have been collected i n no less than two-thirds of the oblasts, with no less than 100 000 signatures in each oblast.

Article 73.

Issues of altering the territory of Ukraine are resolved exclusively by an All-Ukrainian referendum.

Legislationline

face your · Feb 6, 2015

It was not only illegal under the Ukrainian Constitution but under the Crimean Constitution as well:

7
In order for the referendum to be constitutional and legal, it would be required that the issues put before the voters be issues which can be the object of a local referendum under the Constitutions of Ukraine and the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. The Constitution of Ukraine enjoys supremacy over the Constitution of Crimea as an autonomous republic. Ukraine is a unitary state (Article 2 of the Constitution of Ukraine). According to Article 132 of the Constitution of Ukraine, “the territorial structure of Ukraine is based on the principles of unity and indivisibility of the state territory, the combination of centralization and decentralization in the exercise of state power, and the balanced socioeconomic development of regions (...)”. Under Article 134 of the Constitution of Ukraine, “the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is an inseparable constituent part of Ukraine and decides on the issues ascribed to its competence within the limits of authority determined by the Constitution of Ukraine”. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea therefore enjoys autonomy only to the extent that powers were transferred to it by the Constitution of Ukraine
.
8
.
Accordingly, Article 135 of the Constitution of Ukraine holds that, “regulatory legal acts of the Verkhovna Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and decisions of the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea shall not contradict the Constitution and laws of Ukraine and shall be adopted in accordance wit h and in pursuance of the Constitution of Ukraine, laws of Ukraine, acts of the President of Ukraine and the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine”. A corresponding provision is included in Article 28 of the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea: “The statutory acts of the Supreme Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea upon any and all matters regarding the powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea shall conform to the Constitution of Ukraine and Ukrainian laws.” An act by an authority of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea which is contrary to the Constitution of Ukraine is therefore also contrary to the Constitution of Crimea.

http://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/default.aspx?pdffile=CDL-AD(2014)002-e

This illegal invasion, occupation, and annexation was deemed illegal by the vast majority of the UNGA:

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262

The resolution, which was supported by 100 United Nations member states, affirmed the United Nations commitment to recognize Crimea within Ukraine’s international borders and underscored the invalidity of the 2014 Crimean referendum. Armenia, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, North Korea, Nicaragua, Russia, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela and Zimbabwe all voted against the resolution. There were also 58 abstentions, and a further 24 states did not vote through being absent when the vote took place.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

face your · Feb 6, 2015

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

Even the UNSC voted against it and had it not been for Russia's permanent member status it would have passed, even China abstained which was tantamount to a yes vote:

15 March 2014 – Owing to the negative vote of one of its permanent members, the United Nations Security Council today failed to adopt a draft resolution which urged countries not to recognize the results of this weekend's referendum in Crimea.

Thirteen of the Council's 15 members voted in favour of the draft text, Russia voted against, and China abstained. A veto by any of the Council's five permanent members – China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States – means a resolution cannot be adopted.

United Nations News Centre - UN Security Council action on Crimea referendum blocked

Furthermore; the only mass murder of Ukrainians in the East was and is conducted and being conducted by the Russian funded, armed, trained and directed terrorists against ethnic Ukrainians and that is not according to me it is according to the United Nations Human Rights investigators into the matter:

“We are talking of a reign of fear, if not of terror” in the pockets of territory around Donetsk and Luhansk controlled by armed separatists and now experiencing a state of total lawlessness, Mr. Magazzeni said, citing cases of people shot at checkpoints for no reason and members of armed groups who were summarily shot because they no longer wanted to fight.

“The escalation in criminal activity resulting in human rights abuses is no longer limited to targeting journalists, elected representatives, local politicians, civil servants and civil society activists,” the report stated. “Abductions, detentions, acts of ill-treatment and torture, and killings by armed groups are now affecting the broader population of the two eastern regions.”

They further report that pogroms in the Crimea are responsible for ethnic cleansing in the Crimea:

The United Nations refugee agency has reported that more than 34,000 Ukrainians have been displaced. Most were from Crimea, where people who speak Ukrainian or do not want to change their nationality to Russian face discrimination and intimidation, Mr. Magazzeni said.

“They are mostly concerned about security: people report staying in cellars to keep away from the fighting, facing harassment at checkpoints and fearing the increasingly common abductions, threats and extortion,” the monitors reported.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/w...tails-casualties-in-eastern-ukraine.html?_r=0

DA60 · Feb 6, 2015

Once again, the Russian 'aggression' in the Ukraine is - in theory - to support a region who voted overwhelmingly to join Russia.

Ukraine crisis: Donetsk region asks to join Russia | World news | The Guardian

A similar situation happened in the Crimea...they overwhelmingly voted to join Russia in an official (though flawed) referendum.

Russia are no saints in this, but neither is Kiev/the West.

As for Russia threatening Eastern Europe? If regions in that area have referendums (hopefully, UN monitored) and vote to join Russia...then I see nothing wrong with them joining Russia.
I think NATO AND Russian forces should stay out of non-NATO countries like Latvia, for example.

face your · Feb 6, 2015

DA60 said:
Once again, the Russian 'aggression' in the Ukraine is - in theory - to support a region who voted overwhelmingly to join Russia.

Ukraine crisis: Donetsk region asks to join Russia | World news | The Guardian

A similar situation happened in the Crimea...they overwhelmingly voted to join Russia in an official (though flawed) referendum.

Russia are no saints in this, but neither is Kiev/the West.

As for Russia threatening Eastern Europe? If regions in that area have referendums (hopefully, UN monitored) and vote to join Russia...then I see nothing wrong with them joining Russia.
I think NATO AND Russian forces should stay out of non-NATO countries like Latvia, for example.

Article 72.

An All-Ukrainian referendum is designated by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine or by the President of Ukraine, in accordance with their authority established by this Constitution.

An All-Ukrainian referendum is called on popular initiative on the request of no less than three million citizens of Ukraine who have the right to vote, on the condition that the signatures in favour of designating the referendum have been collected i n no less than two-thirds of the oblasts, with no less than 100 000 signatures in each oblast.

Article 73.

Issues of altering the territory of Ukraine are resolved exclusively by an All-Ukrainian referendum.

Legislationline

It was not only illegal under the Ukrainian Constitution but under the Crimean Constitution as well:

7
In order for the referendum to be constitutional and legal, it would be required that the issues put before the voters be issues which can be the object of a local referendum under the Constitutions of Ukraine and the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. The Constitution of Ukraine enjoys supremacy over the Constitution of Crimea as an autonomous republic. Ukraine is a unitary state (Article 2 of the Constitution of Ukraine). According to Article 132 of the Constitution of Ukraine, “the territorial structure of Ukraine is based on the principles of unity and indivisibility of the state territory, the combination of centralization and decentralization in the exercise of state power, and the balanced socioeconomic development of regions (...)”. Under Article 134 of the Constitution of Ukraine, “the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is an inseparable constituent part of Ukraine and decides on the issues ascribed to its competence within the limits of authority determined by the Constitution of Ukraine”. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea therefore enjoys autonomy only to the extent that powers were transferred to it by the Constitution of Ukraine
.
8
.
Accordingly, Article 135 of the Constitution of Ukraine holds that, “regulatory legal acts of the Verkhovna Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and decisions of the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea shall not contradict the Constitution and laws of Ukraine and shall be adopted in accordance wit h and in pursuance of the Constitution of Ukraine, laws of Ukraine, acts of the President of Ukraine and the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine”. A corresponding provision is included in Article 28 of the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea: “The statutory acts of the Supreme Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea upon any and all matters regarding the powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea shall conform to the Constitution of Ukraine and Ukrainian laws.” An act by an authority of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea which is contrary to the Constitution of Ukraine is therefore also contrary to the Constitution of Crimea.

http://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/default.aspx?pdffile=CDL-AD(2014)002-e

This illegal invasion, occupation, and annexation was deemed illegal by the vast majority of the UNGA:

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262

The resolution, which was supported by 100 United Nations member states, affirmed the United Nations commitment to recognize Crimea within Ukraine’s international borders and underscored the invalidity of the 2014 Crimean referendum. Armenia, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, North Korea, Nicaragua, Russia, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela and Zimbabwe all voted against the resolution. There were also 58 abstentions, and a further 24 states did not vote through being absent when the vote took place.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

face your · Feb 6, 2015

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

Even the UNSC voted against it and had it not been for Russia's permanent member status it would have passed, even China abstained which was tantamount to a yes vote:

15 March 2014 – Owing to the negative vote of one of its permanent members, the United Nations Security Council today failed to adopt a draft resolution which urged countries not to recognize the results of this weekend's referendum in Crimea.

Thirteen of the Council's 15 members voted in favour of the draft text, Russia voted against, and China abstained. A veto by any of the Council's five permanent members – China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States – means a resolution cannot be adopted.

United Nations News Centre - UN Security Council action on Crimea referendum blocked

The Russian terrorists had turned Donetsk into an armed camp ruled by fear and intimidation the crimean annexation was likewise a fraudulent and illegal referendum in which only two options were offered cessation or annexation rather than maintaining the status quo and which violated both the Crimean and Ukrainian Constitutions.

DA60 · Feb 6, 2015

face said:
Article 72.

An All-Ukrainian referendum is designated by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine or by the President of Ukraine, in accordance with their authority established by this Constitution.

An All-Ukrainian referendum is called on popular initiative on the request of no less than three million citizens of Ukraine who have the right to vote, on the condition that the signatures in favour of designating the referendum have been collected i n no less than two-thirds of the oblasts, with no less than 100 000 signatures in each oblast.

Article 73.

Issues of altering the territory of Ukraine are resolved exclusively by an All-Ukrainian referendum.

Legislationline

It was not only illegal under the Ukrainian Constitution but under the Crimean Constitution as well:

7
In order for the referendum to be constitutional and legal, it would be required that the issues put before the voters be issues which can be the object of a local referendum under the Constitutions of Ukraine and the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. The Constitution of Ukraine enjoys supremacy over the Constitution of Crimea as an autonomous republic. Ukraine is a unitary state (Article 2 of the Constitution of Ukraine). According to Article 132 of the Constitution of Ukraine, “the territorial structure of Ukraine is based on the principles of unity and indivisibility of the state territory, the combination of centralization and decentralization in the exercise of state power, and the balanced socioeconomic development of regions (...)”. Under Article 134 of the Constitution of Ukraine, “the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is an inseparable constituent part of Ukraine and decides on the issues ascribed to its competence within the limits of authority determined by the Constitution of Ukraine”. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea therefore enjoys autonomy only to the extent that powers were transferred to it by the Constitution of Ukraine
.
8
.
Accordingly, Article 135 of the Constitution of Ukraine holds that, “regulatory legal acts of the Verkhovna Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and decisions of the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea shall not contradict the Constitution and laws of Ukraine and shall be adopted in accordance wit h and in pursuance of the Constitution of Ukraine, laws of Ukraine, acts of the President of Ukraine and the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine”.

http://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/default.aspx?pdffile=CDL-AD(2014)002-e

This illegal invasion, occupation, and annexation was deemed illegal by the vast majority of the UNGA:

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262

The resolution, which was supported by 100 United Nations member states, affirmed the United Nations commitment to recognize Crimea within Ukraine’s international borders and underscored the invalidity of the 2014 Crimean referendum. Armenia, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, North Korea, Nicaragua, Russia, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela and Zimbabwe all voted against the resolution. There were also 58 abstentions, and a further 24 states did not vote through being absent when the vote took place.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lol...yes, this is the nonsense the West has peddled.

So, the referendum is illegal under Ukrainian law? So, all Ukraine has to do is state every referendum is illegal under their law and presto...no region can ever vote to breakaway. Even if 100% vote to leave? That's nonsense.
If a region voted overwhelmingly to breakaway, it is TOTALLY irrelevant whether it meets some arbitrary federal law. If 80-90% of a region (as was the case here, if I recall) wants to seperate...that is good enough for me.
What decent human who believes in democracy and is in his/her right mind says that if 90% of a region wants to seperate from a country, that they should not be allowed to do so...regardless of the authoritarian laws of that country?

As for the UN resolution...they were just rubber stamping Kiev's ridiculous law.

DUH...their leaders are terrified of this referendum becoming approved for it could fuel lots of breakaway regions in other parts of the world...so the UN countries obviously voted to squash this referendum out of fear, not justice.

DDD · Feb 6, 2015

About time really.

MildSteel · Feb 6, 2015

joko104 said:
Well, the the EU and USA should just go ahead and surrender, huh?

The U.S. doesn't have a damn thing to surrender to. Putin is getting his ass kicked by the U.S. as a matter of fact. Obama has managed to snatch over half of an very important country that is right on Russia's border from Putin. Capital is leaving Russia. The ruble has lost over half of it's value. Hell, we simply don't need to get involved in a military conflict with Russia right now. We are winning and there is not a damn thing Russia can do to us. If the Ukrainians want to get into a pissing contest with Putin over eastern Ukraine, that is there business. The U.S. does not need to fight other people's wars. What you have put forward here is pure crap. The U.S. does not have a damn thing to surrender to. Get it?

Quag · Feb 6, 2015

Montecresto said:
Still waiting for you to quote me suggesting that they did.

When you tried to infer that what Putin is doing is OK because the west has done similar things in the past.

Quag · Feb 6, 2015

Montecresto said:
I think I made myself clear when I informed you that I disagree with your characterisation of the events in Ukraine over the last year and a half.

Yes you are using the Putin fairyland version of events and I am using the reality version.
I already figures that out.

Quag · Feb 6, 2015

DA60 said:
Once again, the Russian 'aggression' in the Ukraine is - in theory - to support a region who voted overwhelmingly to join Russia.

Ukraine crisis: Donetsk region asks to join Russia | World news | The Guardian

A similar situation happened in the Crimea...they overwhelmingly voted to join Russia in an official (though flawed) referendum.

Russia are no saints in this, but neither is Kiev/the West.

As for Russia threatening Eastern Europe? If regions in that area have referendums (hopefully, UN monitored) and vote to join Russia...then I see nothing wrong with them joining Russia.
I think NATO AND Russian forces should stay out of non-NATO countries like Latvia, for example.

Only Russian agression occured before the votes.
I agree that Russia and NATO should stay out of it, only Putin has decided he wants to annex part of Ukraine and wishfull thinking doesnt stop a tyrant.
BTW Latvia is a NATO member
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/nato_countries.htm

Montecresto · Feb 6, 2015

Quag said:
When you tried to infer that what Putin is doing is OK because the west has done similar things in the past.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Western/US (and your own) condemnation of Putin for doing exactly the same thing. That's the rub.

Quag · Feb 6, 2015

Montecresto said:
I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Western/US (and your own) condemnation of Putin for doing exactly the same thing. That's the rub.

Only he`s not in fact he`s not doing the same thing as the west.
The west isnt secretly invading and annexing parts of other coutries.
Though even if they were It still wouldnt make Putins action OK.
As to hypocrosy, it would only be hypocritical if I didnt condemn the west when if they do the same thing. You have yet to show me where the west has removed insignia of their troops and then sent them in to annex parts of another country.
When you do so you can rest assured I will condemn that as well.

Montecresto · Feb 6, 2015

Quag said:
Yes you are using the Putin fairyland version of events and I am using the reality version.
I already figures that out.

You can figures (sic) out whatever makes you feel better about the atrocities you have been in support of!!!

Montecresto · Feb 6, 2015

Quag said:
Only he`s not in fact he`s not doing the same thing as the west.
The west isnt secretly invading and annexing parts of other coutries.
Though even if they were It still wouldnt make Putins action OK.
As to hypocrosy, it would only be hypocritical if I didnt condemn the west when if they do the same thing. You have yet to show me where the west has removed insignia of their troops and then sent them in to annex parts of another country.
When you do so you can rest assured I will condemn that as well.

Good gawd, if its so freaking secret, tell me why you and I are talking about it. I can tell you one thing sir, if Russia was instigating things in Mexico City that were causing unrest on our borders, we would be responding in kind. Take your open hypocrisy elsewhere. At the moment, Putin is doing nothing differently then any other country would do given the same circumstances.

Quag · Feb 6, 2015

Montecresto said:
You can figures (sic) out whatever makes you feel better about the atrocities you have been in support of!!!

Silly strawman. You are the one who is in support of Putins attacks.

Montecresto · Feb 6, 2015

Quag said:
Silly strawman. You are the one who is in support of Putins attacks.

And you don't even know what a strawman is!! You've been exposed as a fraud and a hypocrite, see ya.

Quag · Feb 6, 2015

Montecresto said:
Good gawd, if its so freaking secret, tell me why you and I are talking about it. I can tell you one thing sir, if Russia was instigating things in Mexico City that were causing unrest on our borders, we would be responding in kind. Take your open hypocrisy elsewhere. At the moment, Putin is doing nothing differently then any other country would do given the same circumstances.

BS!
America isnt the one causing the problems in Ukraine, Putin is. Your enrtire view is skewed by your love of an evil dictator.

Quag · Feb 6, 2015

Montecresto said:
And you don't even know what a strawman is!! You've been exposed as a fraud and a hypocrite, see ya.

BS you spend all your time defending Putin and accusing the US of being evil
I havent defended the US. I have only pointed out that the mess in Ukraine is 100% Putins fault.
Hypocrosy is YOUR problem not mine.

Go back to lapping up Putins lies and ignore the truth.
Everything that happens in the world is the fault of the USA poor little misunderstood Putin robbing his people blind and secretly invading other countries is only doing this because the USA is bad.

Montecresto · Feb 6, 2015

Quag said:
BS!
America isnt the one causing the problems in Ukraine, Putin is. Your enrtire view is skewed by your love of an evil dictator.

Actually, I've never met the man. I assuredly do not love him, but I do hate the hypocrisy dripping from your fingers. Again, go lobby your government to confront Putin, if you dislike him doing what everybody else does, and quit criticising the US for not doing more! Hear?

Quag · Feb 6, 2015

Montecresto said:
Actually, I've never met the man. I assuredly do not love him, but I do hate the hypocrisy dripping from your fingers. Again, go lobby your government to confront Putin, if you dislike him doing what everybody else does, and quit criticising the US for not doing more! Hear?

I haven't criticized the USA for not doing more, all I have done is criticize Putin for causing the whole thing and for invading and annexing part of another country.
There is no hypocrisy in that.
If you show me that the USA is invading and annexing part of another country I assure you I will criticize that as well.
You however have falsely accused the USA of being behind everything and have steadfastly refused to condemn Putin the actual cause.
That makes you the hypocrite.

face your · Feb 7, 2015

DA60 said:
Lol...yes, this is the nonsense the West has peddled.

Better than fascist RT propaganda. Regardless I didn't realize that the UNSC and UNGA were the west now.

So, the referendum is illegal under Ukrainian law? So, all Ukraine has to do is state every referendum is illegal under their law and presto...no region can ever vote to breakaway. Even if 100% vote to leave? That's nonsense.

It's illegal under the crimean constitution as well, territorial changes require a national referendum. By your logic a heavily hispanic neighborhood in California could vote to join Mexico without the rest of Californians getting a say.

If a region voted overwhelmingly to breakaway, it is TOTALLY irrelevant whether it meets some arbitrary federal law. If 80-90% of a region (as was the case here, if I recall) wants to seperate...that is good enough for me.
What decent human who believes in democracy and is in his/her right mind says that if 90% of a region wants to seperate from a country, that they should not be allowed to do so...regardless of the authoritarian laws of that country?

This referendum was completely fraudulent, it was conducted under an illegal occupation, through, a foreign installed occupation government sworn in under the cover of Russian spec ops holding rocket launchers and AKs in the parliament building only two options were offered cessation or annexation, Russian citizens illegally voted in the referendum, and if you believe that 97% of the Crimea which only had a 33% ethnic Russian population voted for annexation then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

As for the UN resolution...they were just rubber stamping Kiev's ridiculous law.

Ah I see the UNGA and UNSC take orders from Kiev now. :roll:

DUH...their leaders are terrified of this referendum becoming approved for it could fuel lots of breakaway regions in other parts of the world...so the UN countries obviously voted to squash this referendum out of fear, not justice.

They voted against it because it was a war crime.

Montecresto · Feb 8, 2015

Quag said:
I haven't criticized the USA for not doing more, all I have done is criticize Putin for causing the whole thing and for invading and annexing part of another country.
There is no hypocrisy in that.
If you show me that the USA is invading and annexing part of another country I assure you I will criticize that as well.
You however have falsely accused the USA of being behind everything and have steadfastly refused to condemn Putin the actual cause.
That makes you the hypocrite.

Tell you what, criticise this, and you and I can call a truce! And please, whatever you do, do not dare to attempt any justification of this!

1954

Guatemala — CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a military coup. Arbenz has threatened to nationalize the Rockefeller-owned United Fruit Company, in which CIA Director Allen Dulles also owns stock. Arbenz is replaced with a series of right-wing dictators whose bloodthirsty policies will kill over 100,000 Guatemalans in the next 40 years.

One of the paradoxes of legislative oversight of intelligence in the early Cold War period was that the United States Congress could give strong, if de facto, support of aggressive covert action while, with the exception of a few leaders, not really knowing which such policies were being carried out. Guatemala is a perfect example. Following its 1944 revolution, which brought democratically elected leftist governments to power, this Central American government faced an increasingly hostile neighbor to the north, the United States. Guatemala's treatment of US-based corporations, especially the United Fruit Company, in expropriating land and other assets, did nothing to improve relations.

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...lligence/kent-csi/vol44no5/html/v44i5a03p.htm

There IS NO END to this type of US aggression all the while mouthing the merits of democracy, quite filthy. And your worried about Putin, lol.