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NATO to bolster forces in eastern Europe against threat from Russia

This is just blame game crap. Again, I don't care about some stupid finger pointing on an issue of this magnitude.

except for the complete lack of blame totally
 
I dont think the USA will fight in Ukraine but they probably will support Ukraine with military aid if Putin doesnt stop.
Again best solution is for the Russian people to overthrow Putin.

Ukraine will not be able to defeat Russia with military aid from the U.S. alone. The only way Ukraine can do it is with direct military intervention from the U.S. THAT IS A FACT. The only thing it will do is escalate the conflict, risk deeper U.S. involvement, and make the whole thing worse.

Again, it would be the epitome of stupid for the U.S. to fight a war with Russia over Ukraine.
 
What if he doesn't stop? Are we, the U.S., going to fight a war with Russia over Ukraine? That would be the epitome of stupid.

a nuclear war would be for both sides

but fighting Russia makes sense if Putin just wants to do whatever he pleases with the world

the destruction of Russia is probably not something that pleases him

but that would be a clear result of a nuclear war
 
Ukraine will not be able to defeat Russia with military aid from the U.S. alone. The only way Ukraine can do it is with direct military intervention from the U.S. THAT IS A FACT. The only thing it will do is escalate the conflict, risk deeper U.S. involvement, and make the whole thing worse.

Again, it would be the epitome of stupid for the U.S. to fight a war with Russia over Ukraine.

Ukraine is not going to invade Russia, they merely have to stop Russia from destroying Ukraine. Same way The Soviet Union lost in Afghanistan and USA lost in Vietnam.

It would be stupid for the Russian people not to remove Putin. Something that is inevitable, hopefully not before it is too late.
 
Ukraine will not be able to defeat Russia with military aid from the U.S. alone. The only way Ukraine can do it is with direct military intervention from the U.S. THAT IS A FACT. The only thing it will do is escalate the conflict, risk deeper U.S. involvement, and make the whole thing worse.

Again, it would be the epitome of stupid for the U.S. to fight a war with Russia over Ukraine.

why according to you we can beat them and we don't even have to bother with regime change or nation building
 
a nuclear war would be for both sides

but fighting Russia makes sense if Putin just wants to do whatever he pleases with the world

the destruction of Russia is probably not something that pleases him

but that would be a clear result of a nuclear war

Unfortunately he may start one in a last ditch attempt to hang on to power.
I cant see any way Putin can leave power and live. When faced with personal destruction he may opt for world destruction.
Lets hope the Russian people remove him before that happens
 
Unfortunately he may start one in a last ditch attempt to hang on to power.
I cant see any way Putin can leave power and live. When faced with personal destruction he may opt for world destruction.
Lets hope the Russian people remove him before that happens

would we even try to kill him or over throw him

seems like that would take a lot more effort then containing him and with a lot more risk because of exactly what you say

a popular uprising would be just as likely to set him off and if he was that crazy I don't think he would voluntarily hand over power either
 
What if he doesn't stop?
Like Hitler? Then the doo-doo will hit the fan. No avoiding it.

Are we, the U.S., going to fight a war with Russia over Ukraine? That would be the epitome of stupid.
No one has suggested US boots on the ground and Ukraine has not asked for any.

All they have asked for is some modernized defensive capabilities. You do realize that their military is using arms made in Soviet times? Much of it doesn't even work anymore. For example, none of their military communications are encrypted and the Russians can listen-in at any time. What nation could possibly defend itself against a super-power using such outdated equipment?

The onus here is on Russia to cease and desist and let Ukraine solve its problems without Russian forces on its soil.
 
Simpleχity;1064277220 said:
The war drums started back in February 2014 with the Russian invasion of Crimea.

Russia's neighbors, including fellow EEU members Belarus and Kazakhstan, are nervous and rightfully so.

Actually, a bit before that with the US involvement in the tragic events of Maiden Square and the support of the Nazi.
 
would we even try to kill him or over throw him

seems like that would take a lot more effort then containing him and with a lot more risk because of exactly what you say

a popular uprising would be just as likely to set him off and if he was that crazy I don't think he would voluntarily hand over power either

No I dont think anyone other than the Russian poeple should remove Putin.
As to a popular uprising, problem is unlike an external invasion he would have no clear target to nuke and it is doubtful that his orders to nuke fellow Russians would be obeyed.
 
Actually, a bit before that with the US involvement in the tragic events of Maiden Square and the support of the Nazi.
Yup. Cookies are a huge involvement.
 
Simpleχity;1064277409 said:
Yup. Cookies are a huge involvement.

I was thinking brownies.


The ongoing crisis in Ukraine has seen a significant loss of life. Over 2,000 people have been killed since Kiev launched it's “anti-terrorist” operation in April.

President Poroshenko has received near unconditional backing from NATO, the United States and the European Union, despite the widespread reports of civilian casualties in the eastern regions.

This support continues despite recent press coverage highlighting the uncomfortable presence of far-right and neo-Nazi groups fighting alongside the Ukrainian army in the eastern provinces, raising the possibility of Kiev's tolerance of fascism.


Crimea is very legally occupied by Russia!!!!
 
No I dont think anyone other than the Russian poeple should remove Putin.
As to a popular uprising, problem is unlike an external invasion he would have no clear target to nuke and it is doubtful that his orders to nuke fellow Russians would be obeyed.

sounds reasonable

I don't think any one else would try it though

so nukes or no the Russian people seem to be the only ones who could back him into a corner
 
The ongoing crisis in Ukraine has seen a significant loss of life. Over 2,000 people have been killed since Kiev launched it's “anti-terrorist” operation in April.
And none of this would have occurred if Russian forces had not crossed the Ukraine border.
 
Simpleχity;1064277420 said:
And none of this would have occurred if Russian forces had not crossed the Ukraine border.

The justification for killing civilians never ends.
 
Actually, a bit before that with the US involvement in the tragic events of Maiden Square and the support of the Nazi.

um wasn't the pro Russian president attacking his own people and trying to curb their freedom to even protest the tragedy?

also the rebels who kind of abandoned protest for armed rebellion in order to tear their country apart and give parts of it to a foreign power that they were loyal to all along while violently crushing local dissent seems tragic to
 
sounds reasonable

I don't think any one else would try it though

so nukes or no the Russian people seem to be the only ones who could back him into a corner

I dont think they are the only ones who could back Putin into a corner I think they are the only ones who should remove him.
 
No it doesn't make any sense at all.

My worry is that there appears to be an element here in the US that feels that the US needs to be giving a significant amount of military support to Ukraine in it's efforts. They will accuse the President of being weak if he does not do so. Such charges of weakness could lead to U.S. involvement to the extent that it becomes our war. At that point, it will result in a nuclear war because Russia simply cannot compete with U.S. conventional forces. At a certain point, neither side can afford to lose. That is my worry.

I think the Russians could do quite well in a war fought literally next door.
 
Ukraine is not going to invade Russia, they merely have to stop Russia from destroying Ukraine. Same way The Soviet Union lost in Afghanistan and USA lost in Vietnam.

Ukraine is not going to be able to do jack with Russia militarily without direct U.S. military intervention. Militarily, without direct U.S. intervention, Russia can indeed take Ukraine. THAT IS FACT. UKRAINE IS NOT AFGHANISTAN NOR VIETNAM.

It would be stupid for the Russian people not to remove Putin. Something that is inevitable, hopefully not before it is too late.

What is stupid is for the U.S. to think that arming Ukraine will cause the Russian people to remove Putin. They will simply rally around the flag. Man what a stupid idea.
 
Ukraine is not going to be able to do jack with Russia militarily without direct U.S. military intervention. Militarily, without direct U.S. intervention, Russia can indeed take Ukraine. THAT IS FACT. UKRAINE IS NOT AFGHANISTAN NOR VIETNAM.
Putin cannot afford to occupy all of Ukraine. He can barely afford Crimea.
 
Simpleχity;1064277400 said:
Like Hitler? Then the doo-doo will hit the fan. No avoiding it.

I don't give a damn about that stupid Hilter rhetoric. Hell that's my money that's going to pay for that crap, AND IF IT TURNS INTO A NUCLEAR WAR MY CHILDREN, INCLUDING MY NINE YEAR OLD SON WILL DIE BECAUSE OF SOME STUPID THEORY THAT THE U.S. IS GOING TO CONTAIN RUSSIA PARTLY BY USING UKRAINE.

Over and above that, I am sick and tired of people trying to use the U.S. to fight their stupid little wars. Let them fight their own wars with their own money, own weapons, and own men.
 
I think the Russians could do quite well in a war fought literally next door.

Exactly. That's why it's stupid to try to compare it to the U.S. fighting in Vietnam. If they want to fight, let them do it with their own men, weapons and money. Why the hell do I and other U.S. taxpayers have to help pay for that stupid crap. It's like everyone wants to U.S. to fight their little stupid ass wars.
 
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