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Thread: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

  1. #121
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    Re: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    Oh, so you're a student of rewritten history. So it was really America who started the war with Japan. Gee, I didn't know that. Please point me to the proof of that. Have you been reading Wikipedia again or was that Snopes?
    US support increased in mid-1941, with the clandestine formation of the 1st American Volunteer Group, better known as the "Flying Tigers." Equipped with US aircraft and American pilots the 1st AVG, under Colonel Claire Chennault, effectively defended the skies over China and Southeast Asia from late-1941 to mid-1942, downing 300 Japanese aircraft with a loss of only 12 of their own. In addition to military support, the US, Britain, and the Netherlands East Indies initiated oil and steel embargos against Japan in August 1941.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #122
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    Re: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    Oh, so you're a student of rewritten history. So it was really America who started the war with Japan. Gee, I didn't know that. Please point me to the proof of that. Have you been reading Wikipedia again or was that Snopes?
    It's not revisionist history. You should read the McCullom memo for starters, and then move on to the secretary of wars diaries that explicitly state FDR was waging an economic war against Japan, as well as placing naval vessels near Japanese waters, stating that he was willing to loose a couple ships to legitimise a declaration of war.

    Whether or not you are of the opinion that the US should have confronted Japanese aggressions in the WestPac is a different debate. A Gallup poll in April of 1941 placed a whopping 80% of Americans against involvement in another world war, and just 20% in favor!!!!!!! After FDR's intrigue/provocation and Japan's response by attacking at PH, those numbers nicely reversed and FDR had his war!

    The U.S. officially declared neutrality in what had become World War II, but President Roosevelt was under heavy pressure from the British to get involved. Roosevelt was also concerned that Japan may threaten U.S. interests in the Pacific. Thus, he explored ways in which the U.S. may intervene despite its neutrality status.

    The main obstacle preventing Roosevelt from getting involved was the American public, which was overwhelmingly opposed to intervention. Most Americans remembered the flawed peace that came from the First World War and wanted no part of another. And 1940 was an election year, in which Roosevelt was seeking an unprecedented third term as president. While campaigning, he declared, “I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars.”

    So if Roosevelt was going to involve the U.S. in the conflict, he first needed to sway public opinion. One way to do this was to coax the potential enemy into attacking first.

    In October 1940, Lieutenant Commander Arthur H. McCollum submitted a memorandum to his superiors. McCollum headed the Far East Asia section of the Office of Naval Intelligence, the forerunner to the Central Intelligence Agency. In what became known as the McCollum Memo, he listed eight steps the U.S. could to take to provoke Japan:

    1 Use British military bases in the Pacific
    2 Use supplies in the Dutch East Indies
    3 Supply aid to China
    4 Deploy warships to Asian ports
    5 Deploy submarines to Asian ports
    6 Build up naval strength at Pearl Harbor
    7 Persuade the Dutch to refuse Japan’s requests for oil and other resources
    8 Impose a trade embargo on Japan
    Last edited by Montecresto; 02-06-15 at 10:50 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #123
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    Re: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Whoever it is, a US president is not a king, and doesn't have the authority to yank folks off death row and publicly hang them the way the king serving a tribal nation can. Part of me says "more's the pity", but the rational part says we have an independent judiciary for a reason, lol!
    It could be said that our present "king" has murdered American citizens abroad just because he didn't like their associations with terrorist groups.

  4. #124
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    Re: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's not revisionist history. You should read the McCullom memo for starters, and then move on to the secretary of wars diaries that explicitly state FDR was waging an economic war against Japan, as well as placing naval vessels near Japanese waters, stating that he was willing to loose a couple ships to legitimise a declaration of war.

    Whether or not you are of the opinion that the US should have confronted Japanese aggressions in the WestPac is a different debate. A Gallup poll in April of 1941 placed a whopping 80% of Americans against involvement in another world war, and just 20% in favor!!!!!!! After FDR's intrigue/provocation and Japan's response by attacking at PH, those numbers nicely reversed and FDR had his war!

    The U.S. officially declared neutrality in what had become World War II, but President Roosevelt was under heavy pressure from the British to get involved. Roosevelt was also concerned that Japan may threaten U.S. interests in the Pacific. Thus, he explored ways in which the U.S. may intervene despite its neutrality status.

    The main obstacle preventing Roosevelt from getting involved was the American public, which was overwhelmingly opposed to intervention. Most Americans remembered the flawed peace that came from the First World War and wanted no part of another. And 1940 was an election year, in which Roosevelt was seeking an unprecedented third term as president. While campaigning, he declared, “I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars.”

    So if Roosevelt was going to involve the U.S. in the conflict, he first needed to sway public opinion. One way to do this was to coax the potential enemy into attacking first.

    In October 1940, Lieutenant Commander Arthur H. McCollum submitted a memorandum to his superiors. McCollum headed the Far East Asia section of the Office of Naval Intelligence, the forerunner to the Central Intelligence Agency. In what became known as the McCollum Memo, he listed eight steps the U.S. could to take to provoke Japan:

    1 Use British military bases in the Pacific
    2 Use supplies in the Dutch East Indies
    3 Supply aid to China
    4 Deploy warships to Asian ports
    5 Deploy submarines to Asian ports
    6 Build up naval strength at Pearl Harbor
    7 Persuade the Dutch to refuse Japan’s requests for oil and other resources
    8 Impose a trade embargo on Japan
    We have blockaded other countries, but none led to war. Might it be because Japan was allied with Germany and unwisely thought they could flex their muscles against what they thought a weaker country? Again, America did not draw first blood. A blockade is not first blood nor is it an attack. You need to go back to school or learn to read with some understanding before you copy and paste incorrect data.

  5. #125
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    Re: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's not revisionist history. You should read the McCullom memo for starters, and then move on to the secretary of wars diaries that explicitly state FDR was waging an economic war against Japan, as well as placing naval vessels near Japanese waters, stating that he was willing to loose a couple ships to legitimise a declaration of war.

    Whether or not you are of the opinion that the US should have confronted Japanese aggressions in the WestPac is a different debate. A Gallup poll in April of 1941 placed a whopping 80% of Americans against involvement in another world war, and just 20% in favor!!!!!!! After FDR's intrigue/provocation and Japan's response by attacking at PH, those numbers nicely reversed and FDR had his war!

    The U.S. officially declared neutrality in what had become World War II, but President Roosevelt was under heavy pressure from the British to get involved. Roosevelt was also concerned that Japan may threaten U.S. interests in the Pacific. Thus, he explored ways in which the U.S. may intervene despite its neutrality status.

    The main obstacle preventing Roosevelt from getting involved was the American public, which was overwhelmingly opposed to intervention. Most Americans remembered the flawed peace that came from the First World War and wanted no part of another. And 1940 was an election year, in which Roosevelt was seeking an unprecedented third term as president. While campaigning, he declared, “I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars.”

    So if Roosevelt was going to involve the U.S. in the conflict, he first needed to sway public opinion. One way to do this was to coax the potential enemy into attacking first.

    In October 1940, Lieutenant Commander Arthur H. McCollum submitted a memorandum to his superiors. McCollum headed the Far East Asia section of the Office of Naval Intelligence, the forerunner to the Central Intelligence Agency. In what became known as the McCollum Memo, he listed eight steps the U.S. could to take to provoke Japan:

    1 Use British military bases in the Pacific
    2 Use supplies in the Dutch East Indies
    3 Supply aid to China
    4 Deploy warships to Asian ports
    5 Deploy submarines to Asian ports
    6 Build up naval strength at Pearl Harbor
    7 Persuade the Dutch to refuse Japan’s requests for oil and other resources
    8 Impose a trade embargo on Japan
    I always get a kick out of the left, who constantly accuses America of being an imperialistic nation always trying to take over other countries under the guise of bringing democracy to them. America froze Japanese assets because of the Japanese imperialistic expansion into Indochina. I suppose in your ideas it is okay for every other country to be imperialistic and take over weaker countries. I guarantee you, Japan was not bringing democracy to Indochina, nor was it seeking the betterment of Indochinese. Far from it. Talk about imperialism, Japan was full of it.

  6. #126
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    Re: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    We have blockaded other countries, but none led to war. Might it be because Japan was allied with Germany and unwisely thought they could flex their muscles against what they thought a weaker country? Again, America did not draw first blood. A blockade is not first blood nor is it an attack. You need to go back to school or learn to read with some understanding before you copy and paste incorrect data.
    Now your changing the argument. Again you wish to justify the US confronting Japan, have at it. But that's not the point I'm making. What I'm pointing to is the fact that FDR and Co. were quietly provoking a Japanese attack to legitimise an American response in order to change public opinion which was HUGELY (80% opposed) in the camp of opposition to US involvement in another war. In an effort to deceive the American people into supporting a US entrance into the SECOND world war, the American people were led to believe that the US was going about our business not bothering a soul, and encouraging peace in the WESTPAC, and out of nowhere, and for no reason at all, Japan bitch slapped us!!!!! Sorry if it makes you feel better about incinerating Japanese babies with nuclear bombs, but it doesn't change the facts, I hope you understand that. Oh and btw, a blockade is considered an act of war.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #127
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    Re: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    I always get a kick out of the left, who constantly accuses America of being an imperialistic nation always trying to take over other countries under the guise of bringing democracy to them. America froze Japanese assets because of the Japanese imperialistic expansion into Indochina. I suppose in your ideas it is okay for every other country to be imperialistic and take over weaker countries. I guarantee you, Japan was not bringing democracy to Indochina, nor was it seeking the betterment of Indochinese. Far from it. Talk about imperialism, Japan was full of it.
    Lol. How often do you see the left criticising Obama's foreign policy???? I like how your ignoring the McCullom memo that spelled out the plan of provocation, which ended up being precisely what was executed, and worked. Continue in your self denial, I know that you will.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Now your changing the argument. Again you wish to justify the US confronting Japan, have at it. But that's not the point I'm making. What I'm pointing to is the fact that FDR and Co. were quietly provoking a Japanese attack to legitimise an American response in order to change public opinion which was HUGELY (80% opposed) in the camp of opposition to US involvement in another war. In an effort to deceive the American people into supporting a US entrance into the SECOND world war, the American people were led to believe that the US was going about our business not bothering a soul, and encouraging peace in the WESTPAC, and out of nowhere, and for no reason at all, Japan bitch slapped us!!!!! Sorry if it makes you feel better about incinerating Japanese babies with nuclear bombs, but it doesn't change the facts, I hope you understand that. Oh and btw, a blockade is considered an act of war.
    Perhaps I misunderstand--are you calling Pearl Harbor a "bitch-slap"?

  9. #129
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    Re: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Lol. How often do you see the left criticising Obama's foreign policy???? I like how your ignoring the McCullom memo that spelled out the plan of provocation, which ended up being precisely what was executed, and worked. Continue in your self denial, I know that you will.
    You're ignoring the fact that Japan was exercising its imperialistic muscles with the intention of taking over another country, something you despise when you even conceive the notion that America might be doing the same thing.

  10. #130
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    Re: ISIS brutaly murders Jordanian pilot. [W:119]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Perhaps I misunderstand--are you calling Pearl Harbor a "bitch-slap"?
    Yes, or sucker punch, if you think that more fitting.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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