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Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

I just watched the video and it's really fascinating. This isn't some rookie with a GoPro filming his buddies. There was massive editing, directing and producing all the way through. Either these guys planned this whole thing from the very beginning or they want people to believe that they planned it. Furthermore, the level of crazy it takes to come up with this stuff is stunning. For example, among the images presented in the film (that's what it was. It wasn't just a video) is video of a newborn being ventilated (with one of those squeeze bags and a piece to cover your mouth and nose) but superimposed on the video was a HUD display like a jet fighter targeting the infant. Frankly, a lot of what I saw reminded me of some of the crazy stuff North Korea puts out.

My ultimate take from the video is that ISIS isn't doing this for religious purposes. They are not the mujaheddin they would like people to believe they are and that, perhaps, they believe themselves to be. They are psychopaths. Nothing more than that. They have no concept of God or Freedom or Life. They are the embodiment of evil.

They are Satan on earth.
 
Lutherf said:
I just watched the video and it's really fascinating. This isn't some rookie with a GoPro filming his buddies. There was massive editing, directing and producing all the way through. Either these guys planned this whole thing from the very beginning or they want people to believe that they planned it. Furthermore, the level of crazy it takes to come up with this stuff is stunning. For example, among the images presented in the film (that's what it was. It wasn't just a video) is video of a newborn being ventilated (with one of those squeeze bags and a piece to cover your mouth and nose) but superimposed on the video was a HUD display like a jet fighter targeting the infant. Frankly, a lot of what I saw reminded me of some of the crazy stuff North Korea puts out.

My ultimate take from the video is that ISIS isn't doing this for religious purposes. They are not the mujaheddin they would like people to believe they are and that, perhaps, they believe themselves to be. They are psychopaths. Nothing more than that. They have no concept of God or Freedom or Life. They are the embodiment of evil.

They are Satan on earth.
Click to expand...


Yet, they were smart enough to plan the release when the King of Jordan was visiting BO in D.C......huh?
 
MMC said:
Yet, they were smart enough to plan the release when the King of Jordan was visiting BO in D.C......huh?
Click to expand...

BO actually plays a large role in the first few minutes of the film.

I wish I understood the language they were speaking. I could pick out a few words but not enough to put the whole thing together. That being said, it's rather obvious that they are not big fans of Obama, Israel or Abdullah II.
 
Lutherf said:
BO actually plays a large role in the first few minutes of the film.

I wish I understood the language they were speaking. I could pick out a few words but not enough to put the whole thing together. That being said, it's rather obvious that they are not big fans of Obama, Israel or Abdullah II.
Click to expand...


Yeah, you can see how they like when BO, peeps away at them. :shock:

He doesn't want to let on he knows that they were AQ in Iraq all along.....so lets not mention all they do or overinflate things about them. Their just an organization. So he says. :roll:
 
MMC said:
Well like I said in the other thread.....this evil is everybody's problem. For them.....there is NO wrong thing. Which includes the Good using the Bad, or the Ugly!
smiley-char092.gif


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Ok we agree, there is evil.

The point is the way it is being fought is not working, blame it on Obama's many failures as things were a **** of a lot moire secure then, but clearly having lost four times as much territory as was sought in the initial invasion is not in the win column; becoming them with beheadings, public executions, crucifixion, boiling in pig oil is not going to be any more effective in stopping them and will likely feed their propaganda campaign [pretty effective in recruiting so far] and enable them to further the meme that the "Great Satan" and freedom is a lie, the war is not about "liberation" at all but continued suppression of a people and its faith.

Do you think that some of these posts about boiling people in pig oil don't show up in their social media just like we have glimpses of their most radical? Do you not think they use that in recruiting, not just in the ME, but here. We just had one of them go nuts about ant-Islam Canada he shot his way into the Parliament block and killed six people. Much of his angst was created on this very internet.

There was a time in America when war was a means to peace, Europe was not only liberated but Germany and the rest rebuilt through the Marshal plan, Japan too and both are among America's best friends. War reparations with Vietnam followed the surrender of US forces and they are good friends.

America has had its hands in the ME since after WWII and been making war off and on for nearly a quarter century and as I write I doubt you have any friends there. I simply no longer believe that war alone will end anything and there are forces who want it that way.
 
Montecresto said:
for every one alleged (key word there) enemy combatant that we kill with a PD there are ten civilians killed.
Click to expand...

If I understand your abbreviations right, you are asserting the U.S. is committing war crimes by killing ten civilians for every "alleged (key word there)" Islamic jihadist it kills in a drone attack. I doubt you can support that assertion with evidence--and the fact you make it suggests how eager you are to slander this country.

Once again, I'd like to recommend an excellent book by Andy McCarthy, the former federal prosecutor who led the prosecution of Omar Abdel "The Blind Sheikh" Rahman for leading the conspirators who bombed the World Trade Center the first time, in February, 1993. The title is "The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America."
 
cpwill said:
Especially all those innocent, harmless, all-male weddings that feature, for some reason, large numbers of arms cache's....
Click to expand...

They'd get stoned to death for an all-male wedding over there, or pushed off the roof of a tall building. Just means the Islamic jihadists have to keep their fondness for buggery well closeted.
 
Lutherf said:
I just watched the video and it's really fascinating. This isn't some rookie with a GoPro filming his buddies. There was massive editing, directing and producing all the way through. Either these guys planned this whole thing from the very beginning or they want people to believe that they planned it. Furthermore, the level of crazy it takes to come up with this stuff is stunning. For example, among the images presented in the film (that's what it was. It wasn't just a video) is video of a newborn being ventilated (with one of those squeeze bags and a piece to cover your mouth and nose) but superimposed on the video was a HUD display like a jet fighter targeting the infant. Frankly, a lot of what I saw reminded me of some of the crazy stuff North Korea puts out.

My ultimate take from the video is that ISIS isn't doing this for religious purposes. They are not the mujaheddin they would like people to believe they are and that, perhaps, they believe themselves to be. They are psychopaths. Nothing more than that. They have no concept of God or Freedom or Life. They are the embodiment of evil.

They are Satan on earth.
Click to expand...


I wonder if the North Korean aren't putting it out?

It would make a lot of sense.

The last bold, most such sweeps of terror are backed by psychos, read Alexander the Great and how he wept that there were no more worlds to conquer, the various Khans who would, for fun, slaughter people in the fields. I have long doubted the sanity of more than a few popes, and then there was Hitler, Goebles and co...and we dare not leave out David Duke.

All I suggest use some mad, twisted logic or faith to underpin their madness, and these are simply the next wave. If you believe in an evil force, call it satan, lucifer or any "ism", it's all the same.

I am not at all surprised this is slick and pejorative of everything US. They have learned, from US TV and film, what works on the North American psyche and are tapping that vein...well, very well.

It is my belief that the US is responding exactly the way they want, not just the bombing an inevitable boots on the ground, but the raised fear level and knee jerk response of Americans....the call for reprisals and such, calling for boiling them in oil etc., only fuels their propaganda campaign and creates more of them....

They sure are wining the media war
 
Fearandloathing said:
Ok we agree, there is evil.

The point is the way it is being fought is not working, blame it on Obama's many failures as things were a **** of a lot moire secure then, but clearly having lost four times as much territory as was sought in the initial invasion is not in the win column; becoming them with beheadings, public executions, crucifixion, boiling in pig oil is not going to be any more effective in stopping them and will likely feed their propaganda campaign [pretty effective in recruiting so far] and enable them to further the meme that the "Great Satan" and freedom is a lie, the war is not about "liberation" at all but continued suppression of a people and its faith.

Do you think that some of these posts about boiling people in pig oil don't show up in their social media just like we have glimpses of their most radical? Do you not think they use that in recruiting, not just in the ME, but here. We just had one of them go nuts about ant-Islam Canada he shot his way into the Parliament block and killed six people. Much of his angst was created on this very internet.

There was a time in America when war was a means to peace, Europe was not only liberated but Germany and the rest rebuilt through the Marshal plan, Japan too and both are among America's best friends. War reparations with Vietnam followed the surrender of US forces and they are good friends.

America has had its hands in the ME since after WWII and been making war off and on for nearly a quarter century and as I write I doubt you have any friends there. I simply no longer believe that war alone will end anything and there are forces who want it that way.
Click to expand...

Well we agree that the way it is being fought now is not working too. Not just that their evil.

Sure they use what they can.....but they also use what they are putting out everyday over Twitter.....about all others. From showing what they do to Gays or Christians. Buddhists and other Muslims. To Showing all they do say and pointing out how there not much any can do. This they use to recruit more to show what any's responses are and that they are dominating their enemy.

So if our smacktalking them recruits them.....it makes it easier to find those that would look to remain hidden. When we show up for the hunt.

One must use all means against these pukes. From Soft power to hard, and including whats off the grid.

We also want it to be known that even associating with them.....getting caught in a pictures with them. Talking/Socializing to them being on the same side of the street. Is a serious worry for all others. So there is no mistaking that they will be given the check out by humanity.
 
Keep me advised on the particulars of the ME.
I'll be on a very long road trip for the next week.

Got my Sunday Trib today--still my favorite newspaper of all time.
Though I do like this link:

US Newspapers - US Newspaper List

MMC said:
Well you are Right there Nimby.....with the way they pulled this stunt. It has pulled the Jordanian people together. Especially now that they know they killed him back on Jan 3rd. They even want to kill the rest of the ISIS prisoners they have. I am with them on that part. But truly....they do need to do it in a way that ISIS cannot mistake whats waiting for them.

Maybe the King of Jordan.....can insist that the King of the Saud. Get off his lazy ass and start taking it to ISIS. Rather than crying about how the US should remove Assad.
Click to expand...
 
Fearandloathing said:
I wonder if the North Korean aren't putting it out?

It would make a lot of sense.

The last bold, most such sweeps of terror are backed by psychos, read Alexander the Great and how he wept that there were no more worlds to conquer, the various Khans who would, for fun, slaughter people in the fields. I have long doubted the sanity of more than a few popes, and then there was Hitler, Goebles and co...and we dare not leave out David Duke.

All I suggest use some mad, twisted logic or faith to underpin their madness, and these are simply the next wave. If you believe in an evil force, call it satan, lucifer or any "ism", it's all the same.

I am not at all surprised this is slick and pejorative of everything US. They have learned, from US TV and film, what works on the North American psyche and are tapping that vein...well, very well.

It is my belief that the US is responding exactly the way they want, not just the bombing an inevitable boots on the ground, but the raised fear level and knee jerk response of Americans....the call for reprisals and such, calling for boiling them in oil etc., only fuels their propaganda campaign and creates more of them....

They sure are wining the media war
Click to expand...

Americans need to do two things:

1. They need to understand that this kind of crazy will end up on THEIR streets unless they remain vigilant. That doesn't mean some paranoid reaction against every Muslim but it does mean that they need to keep their heads in the game. The most likely action a group like ISIS will perform in this country will be a mass shooting in a public place but before they do that they will train and they will recruit. We need to pay special attention to college campuses and social activist organizations because those are the most fertile grounds for crazies to recruit from.

2. They need to get solidly behind Israel. Our government needs to make it perfectly clear that an assault against Israel will be considered to be an assault against the USA and that governments who choose to support and/or harbor these crazies will be considered equally culpable for any acts of terrorism carried on outside their borders.
 
MMC said:
Well we agree that the way it is being fought now is not working too. Not just that their evil.

Sure they use what they can.....but they also use what they are putting out everyday over Twitter.....about all others. From showing what they do to Gays or Christians. Buddhists and other Muslims. To Showing all they do say and pointing out how there not much any can do. This they use to recruit more to show what any's responses are and that they are dominating their enemy.

So if our smacktalking them recruits them.....it makes it easier to find those that would look to remain hidden. When we show up for the hunt.

One must use all means against these pukes. From Soft power to hard, and including whats off the grid.

We also want it to be known that even associating with them.....getting caught in a pictures with them. Talking/Socializing to them being on the same side of the street. Is a serious worry for all others. So there is no mistaking that they will be given the check out by humanity.
Click to expand...

Where in there is the face of democracy?

Is the American brand so fragile it cannot be displayed and used as its own propaganda tool?

Look, at the end of WWII it was a mess what to do with war criminals who weren't really war criminals because they slaughtered civilians. A great controversy ensued across the world, kill them in the ovens they built was one cry, someone actually got around to constructing a guillotine in France to deal with "colaborateur des trevail"...

But American, the commonwealth and others insisted democracy could and would deal with it. Each of the thousands were hunted [some still are] charged, TRIED in a court of law and punished.

Now, we are becoming them, we torture like they do [pain compliance of any kind is torture and water boarding is pain compliance], we are arresting without warrant, imprisoning without due process and make a lot of mistakes. at the same time, they see not only the same hypocrisy we do in them but failure, they can boast "hey, Achmed, we killed an American ambassador and some marines and got away without a scratch. Let's kill some babies and really drive them nuts."

The "war" has been wage badly, is more political football for domestic consumption in the game of who can twist the truth better, and has no end in sight.


As Einstein said "one form of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results." And the US has been doing this since 1961.
 
Since my Dad was Air Force for 22 years, Civil Service for 8 years, and VA for 38 more, I've been around military installations my entire life.
Choosing a Teacher's Tuition scholarship versus an ROTC scholarship in 1971 is still the #1 life-changing choice for me.

I remain as cynical as ever over the 2S deferment ending in 1972, my draft year when I was #38,
when Kissinger/Nixon just so happened to end the draft during that election year.

I was 1-H for seven years while my friends went NG, most of them out-of-state pulling strings.
1972 was my first vote so you can see where my cynicism comes from.

Dad impressed upon me to fight a war to win--so you see my anger coming out right now--he began WW2 at 17-YOA off Saipan.

I remain very bitter at how my older friends who were drafted were treated by ALL aspects of the USA when they came home.
They are all gone now, dying way to young in their 50s and early 60s.
Just a nameplate at a columbarium at Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery, where my Dad has his grave.

Since my Dad did multiple TDYs to Vietnam for supply and escorted fallen soldiers home, I watched him change for the worse as the oldest sibling.

Jack Fabulous said:
Those feelings aren't NeoCon, they're human.
Evil is evil no matter which side of the aisle you're standing on.
Click to expand...

Btw, I started school just after Sputnick on AFB schools.
We were drilled Math in a way that reminds me a lot of common core today.
I can assure you my Chem/Physics students benefitted from me in part due to me being an Air Force brat .
 
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Lutherf said:
Americans need to do two things:

1. They need to understand that this kind of crazy will end up on THEIR streets unless they remain vigilant. That doesn't mean some paranoid reaction against every Muslim but it does mean that they need to keep their heads in the game. The most likely action a group like ISIS will perform in this country will be a mass shooting in a public place but before they do that they will train and they will recruit. We need to pay special attention to college campuses and social activist organizations because those are the most fertile grounds for crazies to recruit from.

2. They need to get solidly behind Israel. Our government needs to make it perfectly clear that an assault against Israel will be considered to be an assault against the USA and that governments who choose to support and/or harbor these crazies will be considered equally culpable for any acts of terrorism carried on outside their borders.
Click to expand...



Neither of which is happening....

and yes, counter intelligence AT HOME needs to be in there...

I will add this...they need to demand of their leadership an effective campaign.....

While Obama and co play mind games with the voters, the enemy see weakness and are exploiting the **** out of it. You cannot pretend that an Ambassador wasn't killed by terrorists for personal political gain and expect respect from the opponent. Hockey players like that get stapled to the ice once and for all. You cannot simply let the matter drop], let the assassins get away and expect them to go back to sleep...

You cannot pull out before the job is done and then argue the niceties at home and expect soldiers like these to fear you. You cannot run around playing games with words about what is "radical" or "Islam" while these ****s are making feature films burning people alive.

I still, perhaps being a romantic, go back to the America I was taught in high school, about the constitution and yes, it is not fair we have to fight with one hand tied behind our back, but we do because we're better than they are. I still come back to the America you did not ever **** with, drop some bombs on an Island and wipe out half our navy? Watch this Kojo.

They get away with mediocrity because the American people let them while having had the country's true greatness stifled amid "gimme" politics and some strange idea that "no we can't, without government help"
 
Fearandloathing said:
Where in there is the face of democracy?

Is the American brand so fragile it cannot be displayed and used as its own propaganda tool?

Look, at the end of WWII it was a mess what to do with war criminals who weren't really war criminals because they slaughtered civilians. A great controversy ensued across the world, kill them in the ovens they built was one cry, someone actually got around to constructing a guillotine in France to deal with "colaborateur des trevail"...

But American, the commonwealth and others insisted democracy could and would deal with it. Each of the thousands were hunted [some still are] charged, TRIED in a court of law and punished.

Now, we are becoming them, we torture like they do [pain compliance of any kind is torture and water boarding is pain compliance], we are arresting without warrant, imprisoning without due process and make a lot of mistakes. at the same time, they see not only the same hypocrisy we do in them but failure, they can boast "hey, Achmed, we killed an American ambassador and some marines and got away without a scratch. Let's kill some babies and really drive them nuts."

The "war" has been wage badly, is more political football for domestic consumption in the game of who can twist the truth better, and has no end in sight.


As Einstein said "one form of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results." And the US has been doing this since 1961.
Click to expand...



In with the soft power, and dealing with other countries leaders.....and again this is not just a US Problem.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Neither of which is happening....

and yes, counter intelligence AT HOME needs to be in there...

I will add this...they need to demand of their leadership an effective campaign.....

While Obama and co play mind games with the voters, the enemy see weakness and are exploiting the **** out of it. You cannot pretend that an Ambassador wasn't killed by terrorists for personal political gain and expect respect from the opponent. Hockey players like that get stapled to the ice once and for all. You cannot simply let the matter drop], let the assassins get away and expect them to go back to sleep...

You cannot pull out before the job is done and then argue the niceties at home and expect soldiers like these to fear you. You cannot run around playing games with words about what is "radical" or "Islam" while these ****s are making feature films burning people alive.

I still, perhaps being a romantic, go back to the America I was taught in high school, about the constitution and yes, it is not fair we have to fight with one hand tied behind our back, but we do because we're better than they are. I still come back to the America you did not ever **** with, drop some bombs on an Island and wipe out half our navy? Watch this Kojo.

They get away with mediocrity because the American people let them while having had the country's true greatness stifled amid "gimme" politics and some strange idea that "no we can't, without government help"
Click to expand...


That part in bold is one of the keys.

There can be no question in our minds that the Islamists have declared war on us and all others who might oppose them. Whether we choose to call it "war" or "terrorism" or "criminal acts" is immaterial. We ARE at war and the ONLY way to fight a war is to crush your enemy until their will to fight is gone. We can not win if we define "victory" as some set of half measures. If we fight only to stick a fork in the eye of our enemy and then hope that they "see the light" after we leave the battlefield we will never achieve victory. After we crush the enemy we need to maintain control of the power vacuum that military victory creates until ideological victory becomes self sustaining.
 
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11Bravo said:
What insults? You quoted me...there is no insult in there. I told you that you lied because you did. Please cite where I SAID I opposed them.
Click to expand...

Where did I lie.
 
JANFU said:
Where did I lie.
Click to expand...

You CLAIMED I was against drone strikes in your INITIAL reply to me. Which is a lie, because I am not against them.

I hope that helped clear up your confusion....
 
11Bravo said:
You CLAIMED I was against drone strikes in your INITIAL reply to me. Which is a lie, because I am not against them.

I hope that helped clear up your confusion....
Click to expand...
Go back to where you posted it.
No confusion here Bucky.
But you think you have a talent to slide away from some of your outrageous blather.
 
JANFU said:
Go back to where you posted it.
No confusion here Bucky.
But you think you have a talent to slide away from some of your outrageous blather.
Click to expand...

Lol I never posted it you liar. I posted that Obama killed innocent people with drones strikes at weddings. I blamed Obama for that as he authorized it.

Where did I say I was against drone strikes in general as you're falsly accussing me of? We will wait for you to quote it.
 
Lutherf said:
I just watched the video and it's really fascinating. This isn't some rookie with a GoPro filming his buddies. There was massive editing, directing and producing all the way through. Either these guys planned this whole thing from the very beginning or they want people to believe that they planned it. Furthermore, the level of crazy it takes to come up with this stuff is stunning. For example, among the images presented in the film (that's what it was. It wasn't just a video) is video of a newborn being ventilated (with one of those squeeze bags and a piece to cover your mouth and nose) but superimposed on the video was a HUD display like a jet fighter targeting the infant. Frankly, a lot of what I saw reminded me of some of the crazy stuff North Korea puts out.

My ultimate take from the video is that ISIS isn't doing this for religious purposes. They are not the mujaheddin they would like people to believe they are and that, perhaps, they believe themselves to be. They are psychopaths. Nothing more than that. They have no concept of God or Freedom or Life. They are the embodiment of evil.

They are Satan on earth.
Click to expand...
That was my take on it too. They want us to believe the pilot was killed for revenge not religion. An eye for an eye.

I suspect the leaders of ISIS are the remnants of Saddam's Iraq Republican Guard that were disbanded after the Iraq invasion. Prior to the invasion I remember seeing a video showing a group of them tearing a dog apart with their teeth and bare hands and screaming into the camera that is what they'd do to US if they invaded. Now look at them....beheading and burning people alive. Yes, they are the epitomy of evil. It's the kind of evil intended to keep a local population compliant and provide a form of justice without having to invest in costly courts and prisons. IE: steal once, get a hand cut off....steal twice, get second hand cut off....steal three times, get head cut off. No prisons necessary, primitive but effective...and evil.
 
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Lutherf said:
That part in bold is one of the keys.

There can be no question in our minds that the Islamists have declared war on us and all others who might oppose them. Whether we choose to call it "war" or "terrorism" or "criminal acts" is immaterial. We ARE at war and the ONLY way to fight a war is to crush your enemy until their will to fight is gone. We can not win if we define "victory" as some set of half measures. If we fight only to stick a fork in the eye of our enemy and then hope that they "see the light" after we leave the battlefield we will never achieve victory. After we crush the enemy we need to maintain control of the power vacuum that military victory creates until ideological victory becomes self sustaining.
Click to expand...



Imagine Roosevelt saying "This is a day that will live in infamy! But they aren't all bad."

The older I get the more first hand irony I suffer. I am a liberal and find myself constantly referencing Republicans, but one thing GWB brought to the table was unity. When Afghanistan was invaded something like 85% of the country approved.

Now, Americans must weed through the jungle of jargon to figure out what to call it and just who you are fighting. There is no base of unity, no single rallying point. Even discussing appropriate response now, becomes an argument about who ****ed up, Bush for going in or Obama for leaving.

If the prevailing climate were that of 1941, America might still be arguing whether it was fair to have provoked the Japanese by having a naval base on Oahu in the first place. It seems Obama encourages that; what I used to term "smoke and mirrors politics"

and there again, 30 plus years ago based in Parliament I watched a former goof ball actor, "right wing fascist' unify a country against its will. Maybe there is hope
 
11Bravo said:
Lol I never posted it you liar. I posted that Obama killed innocent people with drones strikes at weddings. I blamed Obama for that as he authorized it.

Where did I say I was against drone strikes in general as you're falsly accussing me of? We will wait for you to quote it.
Click to expand...

Bucky, you are really not worth the effort. But, another wild assed claim by you is you claiming Obama is an anti-semite and will to let his friends in Iran exterminate the Jews.
 
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