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Thread: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

  1. #351
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Gonna be interesting to see what Jordan's response to this is.
    I have a few thoughts on this:

    First, my heart goes out to that brave Jordanian pilot and his family. I canít imagine what itís like to lose a son, brother, father or friend to such a barbaric and horrific murder and I canít imagine myself acting as bravely as that pilot acted in his last moments, knowing what was coming. I consider him a hero and if I were Jordanian, I would be both proud and angry.

    On the other hand, before the news of the pilotís death broke, too many Jordanians were protesting their countries limited involvement in fighting ISIS because they donít see this as their war. This, I think, is the biggest problem we face today because the West continues to tiptoe around and avoid the words ďIslamĒ and ďMuslimĒ while this sick form of Islam continues to grow in and even overthrow the governments of Muslim nations; yet this isnít their war? Why isnít it their war?

    They probably donít see it as their war because those on the left, who fear Christian conservatives more than terrorists for some reason, have suddenly become advocates of freedom of religion and no separation between church and state when it comes to these radical Islamists who want impose Sharia Law upon the entire world. I understand the fact that not all Muslims are like this but if they arenít, this is their war, not mine.

    Perhaps we will be forced to equate the religion of Islam to Nazism if we hope to avoid global catastrophe or global Sharia Law but that can only happen if Muslims like those in Jordan decide to do nothing rather than taking their ďpeacefulĒ religion back by stomping out ISIS and other detestable Islamic terrorists. Unfortunately there isnít much hope of that because the leftists around the world are bent on open borders, government welfare in exchange for votes and refuse to expect assimilation of cultures.

    God help us all if the Muslim nations donít do what it takes to strike this disease of religion down now, If it isnít a Muslim nations war, who will stop this sickness from spreading?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  2. #352
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Global authorities that the US government conveniently refuses to recognise have correctly condemned civilian casualties by the US military and clandestine agencies. You can ignore it as it pleases you, but that doesn't change the fact.
    You don't name these "global authorities," but what they think is irrelevant. If they're convinced they hold the moral high ground, let them try to do something about it. The government of the United States is responsible to our Constitution, and nothing else in the world. You can ignore that as it pleases you, but it won't change a damned thing.

  3. #353
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    We have a winner:

    ...To carry out this strategy, ISIL needs a serious injection of recruits to build upon its current fighting force of about 30,000 at most, which is significantly fewer fighters than each of its opponent forces: the Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, Iraqi and Syrian government forces and even potential Sunni tribal rivals. Simply put, ISIL is surrounded by enemies with greater fighting power, and needs to grow its military strength to create an Islamic—and Sunni—state inside Iraq and Syria.

    So why the beheadings? In a word, publicity: They increase the group’s profile as the biggest challenger to the supposed greatest enemy of Islam. This allows ISIL to draw from a significantly larger pool of recruits, many with strong anti-American sentiment, which ISIL desperately needs to fight local battles as the group tries to carve out a de facto state. Yes, the beheadings are meant to challenge and intimidate the Western public, but that is only a secondary benefit for ISIL, whose focus remains on defeating enemies in immediate proximity.

    Read more: Why ISIL Beheads Its Victims - Robert A. Pape and Michael Rowley and Sarah Morell - POLITICO Magazine



    Like I have been saying, the media needs to carefully consider to what extent they report the details of these executions.
    To the extent that you're correct in your analysis, you're by extension proving the point that, without exposure of IS brutality, opposition in the west will not be sufficient to present the military challenge needed to stop them. Not to be disrespectful, but most Americans are quite insular and far more interested in what affects them directly in their daily lives than in what is happening in a neighboring city let alone half way around the world. Unless they are hit with it directly, they don't believe it exists.

    At this point in time, IS is winning the PR war and the Obama Administration could take some lessons from them on how to win an advertising campaign.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #354
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Do you think they would?
    I think they might try . I think that attempts to say for certainty one way or the other are idiotic projections - the people who claim that Iranian leadership are really just rational westerners who are seeking their own self-interest are no better than those who claim that they're all full-Ahmadinejad. There is a strong case that they would consider it a religious imperative.

    I am a lot more sure that they will use it as cover to become much more aggressive in the region, and spark a nuclear arms race with Saudi Arabia. Then you have two somewhat shaky, unrepresentative regimes periodically ruled by their extremists. Something I periodically have to re-post when this kind of subject comes up.


    ....Imagine a Mexican standoff, except that 3 of the 4 players are A) paranoid schizophrenics facing opponents they violently hate, B) convinced that death will be a net benefit for them, C) convinced that their souls are in peril if they don't shoot, and D) potentially armed with nukes (the 4th Player is the unfortunately-located Israel). I think everyone here can agree that that is not a "stable" situation, particularly when you add in E) these countries are not internally stable, but may feel forced into an external war in order to solidify internal support and F) at least two of the players (Iran and Saudi Arabia) are occasionally held hostage by their own extremists, who feel free to act without permission, are nearly impossible to stop, and are most desirous of the conflict. And I feel that A) deserves re-mentioning....

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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    You don't name these "global authorities," but what they think is irrelevant. If they're convinced they hold the moral high ground, let them try to do something about it. The government of the United States is responsible to our Constitution, and nothing else in the world. You can ignore that as it pleases you, but it won't change a damned thing.
    Yes, I'm well aware of a bad US habit of ignoring international law, and the ICC.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #356
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    We have a winner:

    ...To carry out this strategy, ISIL needs a serious injection of recruits to build upon its current fighting force of about 30,000 at most, which is significantly fewer fighters than each of its opponent forces: the Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, Iraqi and Syrian government forces and even potential Sunni tribal rivals. Simply put, ISIL is surrounded by enemies with greater fighting power, and needs to grow its military strength to create an Islamicóand Sunnióstate inside Iraq and Syria.

    So why the beheadings? In a word, publicity: They increase the groupís profile as the biggest challenger to the supposed greatest enemy of Islam. This allows ISIL to draw from a significantly larger pool of recruits, many with strong anti-American sentiment, which ISIL desperately needs to fight local battles as the group tries to carve out a de facto state. Yes, the beheadings are meant to challenge and intimidate the Western public, but that is only a secondary benefit for ISIL, whose focus remains on defeating enemies in immediate proximity.

    Read more: Why ISIL Beheads Its Victims - Robert A. Pape and Michael Rowley and Sarah Morell - POLITICO Magazine

    Like I have been saying, the media needs to carefully consider to what extent they report the details of these executions.
    Those who get recruited into ISIL don't generally get their news from Western Media, and they certainly don't get their Jihad Updates from there. Once the video was on twitter, it was already in the hands of everyone who could be operationalized by it.

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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The military knows damn well that the drone program is far more harmful to innocent civilians than the conventional method.
    On the contrary. Having done targeting in the military for several years, I am pretty thoroughly aware of the opposite. The mitigated CER of a hellfire is pretty small - we've had instances where we've hit the back end of the car and the guy in the front gets out and runs away.

    Drone strikes ó billed by President Barack Obama as tactically surgical and less deadly to civilians than conventional air power ó are 10 times more likely to cause innocent casualties than bombs or missiles unleashed from U.S. jets, according to a new study based on classified military documents.


    platform changes. Because launching bigger bombs is the way to kill fewer people. Yeah that's a great idea.

    What this guy isn't taking into account is the different usage - fast movers in Afghanistan are used in support of troops in a TIC. Give them the drone mission, and all you'd be doing is risking a pilot, reducing the loiter time that is actually quite important in limiting civilian casualties, and (possibly) dropping bigger bombs.

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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    OMG. The horror. The evil. They must be stopped. But how?

    One thing to do is to give poison pills to all military who enter the area, so they can kill themselves, rather than be tortured and killed like this.
    You don't have to have a pill. I, for example, carried an extra grenade, separated from the rest of my munitions. If I'm going to the Great Duty Station in the Sky, I'm taking a couple of the bastards with me .

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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    On the contrary. Having done targeting in the military for several years, I am pretty thoroughly aware of the opposite. The mitigated CER of a hellfire is pretty small - we've had instances where we've hit the back end of the car and the guy in the front gets out and runs away.





    platform changes. Because launching bigger bombs is the way to kill fewer people. Yeah that's a great idea.

    What this guy isn't taking into account is the different usage - fast movers in Afghanistan are used in support of troops in a TIC. Give them the drone mission, and all you'd be doing is risking a pilot, reducing the loiter time that is actually quite important in limiting civilian casualties, and (possibly) dropping bigger bombs.
    Mr. Will, or Mr. Lewis??????? I'll have to contemplate that one for a bit.

    The report’s author, Lawrence Lewis, a researcher at the federally funded Center for Naval Analyses who possesses a top-security clearance, dissected secret data on U.S. air attacks in Afghanistan from mid-2010 to mid-2011 — the peak of unmanned drone use during the war, executed under the command of former Gen. David Petraeus.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The ICC is a global authority that has convicted and sentenced heads of state.
    And yet, there is no global authority. Just because Obama bows to dictators and this nation's enemies does not mean the thugs and dictators have any authority over us. Countries must agree. Not all do. None should.

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