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Thread: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

  1. #111
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I think ISIS will be waging a war of self-destruction, but with significant American weaponry rounded up in Syria and Iraq and with petro-dollars being paid by unscrupulous dealers funding them they are far better equipped than the Syrians and Iraqis in small towns and villages they're overrunning. They need our help and they deserve our help.
    I am not arguing againist that.

    I am under no illusions that we have to fight ISIS.

    However, I think we can make the calculated decision to absorb the potential losses from suicide bombings.
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    We, the west, get-the-****-out. Leave. No bases, no embassy, no nothing. We stop ****ing with their governments, stop assassinating and/or replacing their leaders, stop destroying their infrastructure (such that it is), stop any and all occupation of any sort. Let them fight their own battles.

    The one thing we have not tried in over 70 years is leaving them the hell alone.
    There might be some validity to that argument (although I don't buy into your blame America first crap). But there is one problem. If we took that approach now, in the wake of this current threat, that it wouldn't be viewed by ISIS, our allies and the entire world as us retreating in the face of danger. The US is going to have to confront ISIS sooner or later. It will be far easier to do it now than it will be to wait a decade and fight them here.

  3. #113
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    Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and every execution will create a martyr for their cause
    now, explain how that will hurt isis
    I honestly don't care. Jordan promised to execute prisoners if they killed their pilot. They will keep that promise. Probably better than pussyfooting around when they take your people hostage. They aren't children pitching fits. They are savages. It doesn't hurt them to kill them. Fine. But honestly just killing them to get your people back? Fine too. They are friggin barbarians. Treat them that way. Don't treat them like a freaking legitimate government or power to be negotiated with.
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Risky, if we leave them alone now, will this make any substantial difference? So long as we refuse to convert, will this make any difference at all? Bin Laden spelled out in his open letter to the U.S. that it's convert or die.
    Nota, one could argue that bin Laden and the entire region was under duress when he made that statement and in fact had been under duress and attack by the west for decades and still is. Most Muslims are not insisting that we all convert. It is only the extremists, just as it is the extremists in damn near all religions.

    Would our complete departure from the region be successful? In a relatively short period of time, yes I think it would. There would be no westerners to convert or kill if we all left. Anyone who wanted to stay would be on his or her own.










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  5. #115
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you are saying we should be kept in the dark
    and the media - the fourth estate - should do that
    There is no need for the world to know every detail to satisfy their prurient interests. X was killed by ISIL. What more do you need to know to be in the light? Need photos of dead corpses? Do you goggle the vids of the beheadings?

  6. #116
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    There might be some validity to that argument (although I don't buy into your blame America first crap). But there is one problem. If we took that approach now, in the wake of this current threat, that it wouldn't be viewed by ISIS, our allies and the entire world as us retreating in the face of danger. The US is going to have to confront ISIS sooner or later. It will be far easier to do it now than it will be to wait a decade and fight them here.

    I don't know that the rest of the world would view the west as weak and defeated. I don't know that we would have to confront ISIS sooner or later. Let them claim all the victory they want. The western nations bring their troops home. The western nations stop spending trillions of dollars in a ridiculous "war" that has no value. ISIS wins and has to stay in the region without the influx of money from the west. Let them be the winner.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  7. #117
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    I am not arguing againist that.

    I am under no illusions that we have to fight ISIS.

    However, I think we can make the calculated decision to absorb the potential losses from suicide bombings.
    That's fair - I think you're right that people can absorb that which doesn't affect them directly. But I think we have a unique opportunity here to herd public opinion and governments to act that hasn't been the case since directly after 9/11. With the attacks in Canada, the attacks in France, the outpouring of support around the world after the Paris incidents, and now this, there's the potential to get it done. I hope we don't let it slide and then go back into complacency.
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    There is no need for the world to know every detail to satisfy their prurient interests. X was killed by ISIL. What more do you need to know to be in the light? Need photos of dead corpses? Do you goggle the vids of the beheadings?
    Graphic images in general are not being presented in mainstream media due to their psychological impact, with children watching and all. So no that's not necessary. However to suggest that the media shouldn't even report on the executions is quite ridiculous.
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    I honestly don't care. Jordan promised to execute prisoners if they killed their pilot. They will keep that promise. Probably better than pussyfooting around when they take your people hostage. They aren't children pitching fits. They are savages. It doesn't hurt them to kill them. Fine. But honestly just killing them to get your people back? Fine too. They are friggin barbarians. Treat them that way. Don't treat them like a freaking legitimate government or power to be negotiated with.
    I'm sure they'd much prefer to decapitate more than one person at a time via drone or missile and thus avoid the barbarism of using a sword, but they don't have the means.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  10. #120
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    Re: Jordan pilot hostage Moaz al-Kasasbeh 'burned alive'

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'm glad you've tempered your views with respect to harming innocent civilians while destroying ISIS and on that basis I can much more agree with your positions as outlined above.
    Well, I'm glad you've changed your view somewhat, but I have not changed mine one bit. I made clear when I discussed this earlier that I recognized intentional targeting of civilians is a war crime, and was not advocating it. The current policy makes clear to both the jihadists and the inhabitants of cities in Iraq and Syria where they are sheltering that as long as the jihadists are careful to keep themselves and their assets close to the inhabitants, we will never attack them. If we are foolish enough to keep giving these evil people a free pass, it is only a matter of time before many innocent civilians here--maybe even more than on 9/11--are killed because of it. The need to destroy these jihadists thoroughly is pressing, but this President acts like we have all the time in the world to dawdle around with half-measures.

    Imagine refusing, after D-Day, to attack any German forces in France that were near French towns or cities, because that might kill civilians. Of course that would have been ridiculous, and in the end about 40,000 French civilians were killed in the fighting that was needed to drive the Germans out. And the civilians in that case were overwhelmingly friendly to us. I am sure that is not the case in place like Raqaa and Mosul--a few thousand jihadists, without aircraft and with very few heavy weapons, cannot possibly control cities where fifty or a hundred times that many people live unless a great many of those people sympathize with them.

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