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Thread: Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

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    Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

    I wonder what sort of effect this will have on the conflict. Interesting

    Ukraine run by 'miserable Jews,' says rebel chief | The Times of Israel

    Leader of the Donetsk People’s Republic calls for ‘Cossacks’ to take back country from pro-Western leaders

    Alexander Zakharchenko, leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, claimed that Kiev’s pro-Western leaders were “miserable representatives of the great Jewish people.

    “I can’t remember a time when Cossacks were led by people who have never held a sword in their hands,” Zakharchenko told a press conference in the eastern rebel stronghold of Donetsk, in a reference to Ukraine’s nationalist forebears, the Cossacks.

    Zakharchenko said that the country’s historical nationalists “would turn in their graves if they could see who is running Ukraine.”

    Anti-Semitic sentiment remains widespread in Ukraine, where leaders are commonly labelled as Jewish by those seeking to discredit them.

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    Re: Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

    Here's wiki on the history of Jews in Ukraine

    Jewish communities have existed in the territory of Ukraine from the time of Kievan Rus' (one of Kiev city gates was called Judaic)[9][10] and developed many of the most distinctive modern Jewish theological and cultural traditions such as Hasidism[citation needed]. According to the World Jewish Congress, the Jewish community in Ukraine constitute the third biggest Jewish community in Europe and the fifth biggest in the world.[3]

    While at times it flourished, at other times the Jewish community faced periods of persecution and antisemitic discriminatory policies.[citation needed] In the Ukrainian People's Republic, Yiddish was a state language along with Ukrainian and Russian. At that time there was created the Jewish National Union and the community was granted an autonomous status.[11] Yiddish was used on Ukrainian currency in 1917-1920.[12] Before World War II, a little under one-third of Ukraine's urban population consisted of Jews[13] who were the largest national minority in Ukraine. Ukrainian Jews are comprised by a number of ethnic groups, including Ashkenazi Jews, Mountain Jews, Bukharan Jews, Karaite Jews, Krymchak Jews and Georgian Jews.

    In the westernmost area of Ukraine, Jews were mentioned for the first time in 1030. In the name of Orthodox Christianity,[clarification needed] the army of Cossacks and Crimean Tatars massacred and took into captivity a large number of Jews, Roman Catholics and Uniates in 1648–49. Recent estimates range from fifteen thousand to thirty thousand Jews killed or taken captive, and 300 Jewish communities totally destroyed.[14] During the 1821 anti-Jewish riots in Odessa after the death of the Greek Orthodox patriarch in Constantinople, 14 Jews were killed. Some sources claim this episode as the first pogrom. At the start of 20th century, anti-Jewish pogroms continued to occur. When part of the Russian Empire in 1911 to 1913, the antisemitic attitudes can be seen in the number of blood libel cases. In 1915, the government expelled thousands of Jews from the Empire's border areas.[15][16]

    During the 1917 Russian Revolution and the ensuing Russian Civil War, an estimated 31,071 Jews were killed during 1918–1920.[17] During the establishment of the Ukrainian People's Republic (1917–21[18]), pogroms continued to be perpetrated on Ukrainian territory. In Ukraine, the number of civilian Jews killed during the period was between 35 and 50 thousand. Pogroms erupted in January 1919 in the northwest province of Volhynia and spread to many other regions of Ukraine.[19] Massive pogroms continued until 1921.[20] The actions of the Soviet government by 1927 led to a growing antisemitism in the area.[21]

    Total civilian losses during WW II and German occupation in Ukraine are estimated at seven million, including over a million Jews shot and killed by the Einsatzgruppen and by their many local Ukrainian supporters in the western part of Ukraine. Ukraine had 840,000 Jews in 1959, a decrease of almost 70% from 1941 (within Ukraine's current borders). Ukraine's Jewish population declined significantly during the Cold War. In 1989, Ukraine's Jewish population was only slightly more than half of what it was thirty years earlier (in 1959). The overwhelming majority of the Jews who remained in Ukraine in 1989 left Ukraine and moved to other countries (mostly to Israel) in the 1990s during and after the collapse of Communism.[22] Antisemitic graffiti and violence against Jews are still a problem in Ukraine.[23]
    History of the Jews in Ukraine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

    I've given up on anything rational when it comes to Ukraine and surrounding parts, who is in power and who is not, what to do with Russian leaning groups unhappy with present Ukrainian government, these Cossacks and their questionable history, what to do with power hungry and cold war thinking Putin, and overall whom should be under what nation for whatever reason.

    We might as well stay the hell out of it, let them fight it out (as that is clearly what they want to do anyway,) and when done see them all re-draw maps for the umpteenth time only to find each iteration lasting roughly a generation or two.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

    Well I'll be! It was suggested to Stalin to form a Jewish Soviet Socialist Republic in Crimea.

    In 1921, Crimea became an autonomous republic. In 1923, the All-Union Central Committee passed a motion to resettle a large number of the Jewish population from Ukrainian and Belorusian cities to Crimea. 50400 families were moved. The plan to further resettle Jewish families was again confirmed by the Central Committee of the USSR on 15 July 1926 assigning 124 million roubles to the task and also receiving 67 million from foreign sources.[69]

    The Soviet initiative of Jewish settlement in Crimea was opposed by Symon Petlura[70] which he regarded as a provocation. This train of thought was supported by Arnold Margolin[71] who stated that it would be dangerous to set up Jewish colonies there.

    The actions of the Soviet government for the supported settlement in Crimea with Jewish families by 1927 led to a growing antisemitism in the area.[72]

    In 1944, it was suggested to Stalin to form a Jewish Soviet Socialist Republic in Crimea, however, the idea was not materialised.

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    Re: Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

    Unfortunately, the (re)conquest of the Ukraine is going exactly the way I expected after Putin's brazen invasion and occupation of Crimea. It'll take a few years; first they'll take over the eastern provinces, killing or driving out all non-Russian speakers, then they'll eventually march on Kiev. Ugly business, that. A hell of a mess.

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    Re: Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    I've given up on anything rational when it comes to Ukraine and surrounding parts, who is in power and who is not, what to do with Russian leaning groups unhappy with present Ukrainian government, these Cossacks and their questionable history, what to do with power hungry and cold war thinking Putin, and overall whom should be under what nation for whatever reason.

    We might as well stay the hell out of it, let them fight it out (as that is clearly what they want to do anyway,) and when done see them all re-draw maps for the umpteenth time only to find each iteration lasting roughly a generation or two.
    It's to late to stay out of it. We have forced the issue and as a result Putin can write of western Ukraine, likely for good. I just hope it doesn't end in a nuclear confrontation between Russia and the US. If we start arming Ukraine, that may be the road we will go down.

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    Re: Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Unfortunately, the (re)conquest of the Ukraine is going exactly the way I expected after Putin's brazen invasion and occupation of Crimea. It'll take a few years; first they'll take over the eastern provinces, killing or driving out all non-Russian speakers, then they'll eventually march on Kiev. Ugly business, that. A hell of a mess.
    First of all, Russia needed to take Crimea. The only regional power that they can tangibly project centers around that naval base at Sevastopol. Without that, in terms of the ability of Russia to project conventional military power, there is not much left.

    I really don't think they are interested in taking eastern Ukraine. It would be very very difficult for them to maintain their hold on it. However, if we decide to arm Ukraine, that may very well be where this thing is headed.

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    Re: Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It's to late to stay out of it. We have forced the issue and as a result Putin can write of western Ukraine, likely for good. I just hope it doesn't end in a nuclear confrontation between Russia and the US. If we start arming Ukraine, that may be the road we will go down.
    I doubt anyone is interested in nuclear confrontation, basic deterrence with these sort of weapons suggests that is extremely unlikely. If anything Putin is just pushing the limits of his cold war thinking mentality in bullying Ukraine to secure enough of it that leans Russian.

    It we start arming Ukraine more actively that just means additional US culpability when it all goes to ****. I consider this very foolish, and damn near something Putin is baiting us into doing.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    I doubt anyone is interested in nuclear confrontation, basic deterrence with these sort of weapons suggests that is extremely unlikely. If anything Putin is just pushing the limits of his cold war thinking mentality in bullying Ukraine to secure enough of it that leans Russian.

    It we start arming Ukraine more actively that just means additional US culpability when it all goes to ****. I consider this very foolish, and damn near something Putin is baiting us into doing.
    Of course no one is interested in a nuclear confrontation. But according to Ariel Cohen, Russia has a defense doctrine that states that Russia will respond with nuclear weapons if confronted with an overwhelming conventional force. The US would pose such a problem for Russia.

    If we start arming Ukraine, and they continue to lose, it's not that hard to see a US President, faced with criticism that he is weak for not responding to so called "Russian aggression", increasing US involvement in Ukraine, even to the point of sending in armed troops. Then we would indeed end up with a nuclear confrontation.

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    Re: Ukraine run by ‘miserable Jews,’ says rebel chief

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Of course no one is interested in a nuclear confrontation. But according to Ariel Cohen, Russia has a defense doctrine that states that Russia will respond with nuclear weapons if confronted with an overwhelming conventional force. The US would pose such a problem for Russia.

    If we start arming Ukraine, and they continue to lose, it's not that hard to see a US President, faced with criticism that he is weak for not responding to so called "Russian aggression", increasing US involvement in Ukraine, even to the point of sending in armed troops. Then we would indeed end up with a nuclear confrontation.
    I think you are giving too much credit to the idea that Russia would consider such a confrontation, and an even more credit to the US attacking Russia conventionally. Just not in the cards. Again, if we face anything it is an escalated cold war which leads to very different consequences than outright war.

    We are simply not seeing enough good options, or an upside at all, to aiding Ukraine in their efforts to keep land containing people they clearly do not like as a response to Putin's advances for them. This problem is not as simple as saying it is all Russia's fault, Ukraine has at least some culpability as to why everyone inside of that nation refuses to get along.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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