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Thread: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And it was leased thru 2040!!! He had assets to secure.
    Yes. And Putin "secured" his leased assets via military force and annexation. That hasn't happened in Europe since the land grabs of Hitler and Stalin.


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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Yes. It does remind one of Chamberlain's attitude towards Hitler and Nazi Germany. We already know how that approach worked out.

    One would hope that they - above all others - would realize that expansionist regimes are never satisfied with appeasement.

    Hope is eternal, but time is short.
    I agree. The US/NATO encroachment into territory just a few hundred
    miles from Moscow is a real and present danger to Putin and Russia. It
    seems they must do something. The Eastern Ukrainians voted to be
    annexed by Russia, but Russia opposes that. The Eastern Ukrainians
    want some autonomy because Kiev tried to make Russian language spoken
    in the region illegal. Kiev invaded Eastern Ukraine instead of negotiating a
    peaceful and amicable status quo because the USA/CIA want all of Ukraine
    and especially that part that borders Russia. Russia has helped people who
    have brothers, parents, children and family in both Ukraine and Russia and
    that is no surprise. I am certain that Russia is supplying arms to help the
    rebels and will allow willing Russians to go fight for their families or beliefs
    in Eastern Ukraine. The reigning "putz crew" in Kiev should be concerned
    that if they continue the agression, Eastern Ukraine will get pissed and make
    a stop in Kiev to do a little housecleaning on the crooks that imitiate a
    government. It's a CIVIL WAR, but it would be a lot better for the USMIC if
    it were a larger war and that's just good marketing, eh?

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Yes. And Putin "secured" his leased assets via military force and annexation. That hasn't happened in Europe since the land grabs of Hitler and Stalin.
    Yes, typically a nation uses its armed forces to secure their assets, your false characterisation of the events aren't going to change reality and the fact that due to failed US intrigue in Kiev the fall of 2013, Crimea is securely back in Russia's control.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yes, typically a nation uses its armed forces to secure their assets,
    The US certainly didn't do this to "secure" its naval base at Subic Bay in the Philippines. At the time of the expiration of the Military Bases Agreement with the Philippines in 1992, the US Subic Bay Naval Base was the largest US military installation overseas. The US didn't invade the Philippines and annex the Bay, it simply packed up and left and today enjoys excellent relations with that nation.

    Ukraine never asked nor demanded that Russia abandon its naval base in Crimea. Putin unilaterally decided to seize and annex the entire Crimean peninsula by force.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    What Philippines? What are you trying to say? The blessed, the kind, the wise, the fair United States do not invade other countries? There is a lot of cases though.
    For example, go there and learn: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...r-w-292-a.html

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The US certainly didn't do this to "secure" its naval base at Subic Bay in the Philippines. At the time of the expiration of the Military Bases Agreement with the Philippines in 1992, the US Subic Bay Naval Base was the largest US military installation overseas. The US didn't invade the Philippines and annex the Bay, it simply packed up and left and today enjoys excellent relations with that nation.

    Ukraine never asked nor demanded that Russia abandon its naval base in Crimea. Putin unilaterally decided to seize and annex the entire Crimean peninsula by force.
    Actually not. He accomplished his objective with I believe no killing and little or no destruction. And with a majority of pro Russian citizens with arms wide open. Now that's how the self determination that the US loves to support in other places when it serves some interest, is suppose to work. By the way, have you noticed how happy the folks are moving about the streets of Crimea these days?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    What Philippines? What are you trying to say? The blessed, the kind, the wise, the fair United States do not invade other countries? There is a lot of cases though.
    For example, go there and learn: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...r-w-292-a.html
    The whole reason that the US ended up with it to begin with is because the US saw Japan's designs on the natural resources there and instigated, by way of provocation, a Japanese attack to legitimise the US repelling Japan from there and keeping them for ourselves, having kicked Spain's ass in 1898 and taking as the booty, the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico. Also, pointing out that the US was so nice to give it back without a fuss, is like patting the UK on the back for ultimately giving back much of what they took by military conquest during their overtly imperialistic days. Covertly, the US and the UK both continue imperialism.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 02-08-15 at 02:19 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFirst View Post
    What Philippines? What are you trying to say? The blessed, the kind, the wise, the fair United States do not invade other countries? There is a lot of cases though.
    For example, go there and learn: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...r-w-292-a.html
    As always, your reply is a diversionary non sequitur


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    I"ll change the blue a bit:
    Neither Russia nor US can win the war with military means.
    In the end, Ukrainians as a people - including Donbas residents, should decide how to shape their own future.

    Fallen.
    How should they go about making that decision?

    The Volunteer soldiers are simply unleashed bullies. How can decision be made under threats from Russian backed Rebels and Ukrainian right wing militant groups? Neither Russia, nor the West is in control of the bullies.

    The US CIOA and Putin may have started the conflict, and thereby had control at the beginning. But now, it is ve3ry difficult, if not impossible for the CIA or Putin to reign in the Right Wing and Separatist bullies.


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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And it was leased thru 2040!!! He had assets to secure.

    The war criminal Putin violated the terms of the Partition Treaty on the Status of the Black Sea Fleet on several points, namely it limited the number of Russian troops on the baser, that it required Russian troops to remain on the base, and that it required them to check with Kiev every time new troops entered the Crimea

    Article 4

    1. The total number of personnel, the number of ships ships, weapons and equipment of the Black Sea Fleet Russian Federation who are pas territory of Ukraine, not will exceed the levels specified in the Agreement between Russian Federation and Ukraine on the parameters section Black Sea Fleet from the "28" in May 1997. 2. The Russian Party shall annually, before January 1, according to list agreed by the Parties shall inform the Ukrainian side of the total number of personnel and the main armament Russian Black Sea Fleet located at territory of Ukraine.

    Article 6

    1. Military units operate in places of deployment in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation, respect the sovereignty of Ukraine, observe its legislation and do not allow interference in the internal affairs Ukraine. 2. Economic activity of enterprises, organizations and institutions the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation shall not contradict the legislation of Ukraine. 3. Public authorities to respect the status of Ukraine military formations, shall take appropriate and consistent with their command safety measures personal composition, protection of property rights and property military units, and do not interfere in their internal life. 4. Relationships of persons belonging to the military formations and their families with legal and physical Ukraine faces is governed by the relevant locations of the Parties treaties and laws of Ukraine.

    Article 15

    1. Transport troops, persons belonging to the military formations, following a single procedure and in part of military formations, weapons, military equipment and other logistical resources, and guard specialists, their attendants, all modes of transport, which are executed in the interests of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, implemented on a priority basis to meet border, customs and other types of state control when crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border in accordance with the Ukrainian legislation. 2. Transport of dangerous goods and discharge are carried out in accordance with the signed December 23, 1993 in Ashgabat in within the Commonwealth of Independent States Agreement interstate transport of dangerous goods and discharge. 3. Special transport and military products appointments are made ​​in accordance with the contract May 26 1995 in Minsk within the Commonwealth of Independent States Agreement on the transport of goods and special products for military appointment. 4. Transportation using ships Navy, civilian agencies of the Russian courts Federation of Ukrainian ports were in compliance with Merchant Shipping Code of Ukraine, the corresponding port rules, rules of safety of navigation and environmental protection Fisheries and Ukraine. 5. Movement associated with the activities of military units outside their areas of deployment are carried out after coordination with the competent authorities of Ukraine.


    Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet - Wikisource, the free online library

    How about that sharp majority of pro Russian citizens living there, were they leased too?
    If you believe that 97% of the Crimea which only has a 60% Russian population voted for annexation then I have a great deal for you on a bridge in Brooklyn.

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