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Thread: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

  1. #51
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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The world is already a much more dangerous place and about to get even more dangerous thanks to Czar Putin.

    Perhaps Merkel and Hollande now clearly see the proverbial writing on the wall.
    Their formulation that 'peace in Europe can only be made with and not against Russia' has an ominous flavor and makes me think that they might be thinking to separate or at least move away from from the Atlantic community. That would make the world much more dangerous.

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Perhaps Merkel and Hollande now clearly see the proverbial writing on the wall.
    Ukraine crisis: 'Last chance' for peace says Hollande

    BBC - 7 February 2015

    A peace plan drawn up by France and Germany is "one of the last chances" to end the conflict in east Ukraine, French leader Francois Hollande says. Mr Hollande warned reporters that the consequences of continued fighting were serious. "If we fail to find a lasting peace agreement, we know the scenario perfectly well... it is called war."
    Mr. Hollande... the Russia-Ukraine War has been going on for almost a year now. Wake up.


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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Their formulation that 'peace in Europe can only be made with and not against Russia' has an ominous flavor and makes me think that they might be thinking to separate or at least move away from from the Atlantic community. That would make the world much more dangerous.
    Yes. It does remind one of Chamberlain's attitude towards Hitler and Nazi Germany. We already know how that approach worked out.

    One would hope that they - above all others - would realize that expansionist regimes are never satisfied with appeasement.

    Hope is eternal, but time is short.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

    Repeal and Replace Trump.

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Crimea has been Ukraine territory since 1954. That is why Russia has been paying Ukraine $98 million dollars a year since 2009 to lease the Black Sea Fleet naval base at Sevastopol. You don't pay rent on something that is already yours.
    And it was leased thru 2040!!! He had assets to secure. How about that sharp majority of pro Russian citizens living there, were they leased too?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Giving weapons to the Ukrainians will just make a bad situation worse- it could push Russia over the edge and into direct interventionism in which they will win anyway so this is a very very lousy idea.
    As basically stated by the commander of NATO forces himself!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Russia is already involved in direct interventionism. Russian soldiers have been captured on Ukraine territory. A highly conservative estimate places the level of Russian forces currently in eastern Ukraine at 1,000. This is the minimum necessary to operate the highly sophisticated Russian arms systems that have been injected into the rebel regions.
    Simple wants another proxy with Russia.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    This is a given. Due to geography, Putin is in possession of "escalation dominance". However, there is also the other side of the coin. Russia cannot financially afford an occupation of Ukraine. It can barely afford Crimea. There is also the domestic reality. Most Russians do not believe Russia will go to war with Ukraine (VTsIOM). Crimea is one thing, but a full-on invasion and occupation of mainland Ukraine is quite another thing.

    Rather than supplying arms to Ukraine, I personally favor a different approach which is being discussed and which brought Iran to the bargaining table. This would be removing Russia from the SWIFT system. Based in Belgium, this is the global system that allows banks to move funds around the world and credit cards to work. If this penalty were imposed, the entire Russian financial system would internally collapse within months.
    It could also lead to rash, unpredictable behavior, not unlike things the world has seen before. No thanks, let the separatists in eastern Ukraine have their autonomous real estate, a far better outcome.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Yes. It does remind one of Chamberlain's attitude towards Hitler and Nazi Germany. We already know how that approach worked out.

    One would hope that they - above all others - would realize that expansionist regimes are never satisfied with appeasement.

    Hope is eternal, but time is short.
    And they are acting like irresponsible idiots.

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Yes. It does remind one of Chamberlain's attitude towards Hitler and Nazi Germany. We already know how that approach worked out.

    One would hope that they - above all others - would realize that expansionist regimes are never satisfied with appeasement.

    Hope is eternal, but time is short.
    Oh good gawd, here we go with the Putin, Hitler, Nazi comparisons again, yawn.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Thanks to spangledbanner for this link:

    One Year Later, Crimeans Prefer Russia

    Ukrainian political scientist Taras Berezovets, a Crimea native, recently started an initiative he called Free Crimea, aided by the Canada Fund for Local Initiatives and aimed at building Ukrainian soft power on the peninsula. He started by commissioning a poll of Crimean residents from the Ukrainian branch of Germany's biggest market research organization, GfK. The poll results were something of a cold shower to Berezovets.

    GfK Ukraine's poll wasn't based on actual field work, which is understandable, since a Ukraine-based organization would have a tough time operating in today's Crimea, which is rife with Russian FSB secret police agents and ruled by a local government intent on keeping dissent to a minimum. Instead, it conducted a telephone poll of 800 people in Crimea.

    The calls were made on Jan. 16-22 to people living in towns with a population of 20,000 or more, which probably led to the peninsula's native population, the Tatars, being underrepresented because many of them live in small villages. On the other hand, no calls were placed in Sevastopol, the most pro-Russian city in Crimea. Even with these limitations, it was the most representative independent poll taken on the peninsula since its annexation.

    Eighty-two percent of those polled said they fully supported Crimea's inclusion in Russia, and another 11 percent expressed partial support. Only 4 percent spoke out against it.

    One Year Later, Crimeans Prefer Russia - Bloomberg View

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