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Thread: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

  1. #21
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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    It's a complicated question. Sending even a few anti-air SAMS and anti-armored vehicle weapons would make matters almost impossible in Ukraine for Putin's take-over quest. It would take little and little cost to turn that conflict into an unending quagmire and Russians would tire of it fairly quickly.

    What makes it complicated is Russia could then do the same against US in the ME.

    We have the ability to virtually neutralize heavy vehicles and air power being used by Russia in Ukraine, but Russia could cause us a lot of problems in the ME in the same way in response.

    Generally, the major powers have an unspoken deal that they won't release, sell or allow to be sold 1.) effective anti aircraft missiles and 2.) weaponry that can take out armored vehicles. That allows the major powers to remain major powers. The major powers draw a line on how they prick with each other for mutual interests.

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Oh, I don't know about that. One can find Kalashnikov's everywhere in the world. Which reminds me... I'll give you a nice travel tip. There is a Kalashnikov museum in Izhevsk, Russia, the city where the Kalashnikov weapons factory is located. After paying a fee to gain entrance, you are provided purple shower caps to place over your shoes. Honest to God. The exhibits are nifty but the biggest surprise lurks in the basement. There is a shooting range to fire Kalashnikov weapons! Hot damn! I've never seen a museum quite like this anywhere else.
    America, arms-dealer to the world
    Munitions is the one U.S. industry that's booming -- with devastating global consequences
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say


    With his economy already tanking, such battlefield assistance *could* dramatically change the calculus of Vladimir Putin. It is a huge decision. I would speculate that neighboring European states who are alarmed by Russian aggression may follow any such US lead in this regard.
    About time we need to save them from this cult of personality brainwashing.



    Last edited by face, your; 02-05-15 at 12:17 AM.

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    America, arms-dealer to the world
    Munitions is the one U.S. industry that's booming -- with devastating global consequences
    No, pot is the number one industry in the US right now.

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    Unfortunately, the Minsk agreements are dead for now, and both sides are to blame for that.
    Although both sides continued to trade sporadic artillery/rocket fire from 5 September on-wards, it was rebel actions in mid-January that killed Minsk. Those actions included a public rejection of the Minsk Agreement by rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko who also announced a new multi-front offensive which initiated heavy fighting at the Donetsk Airport, heavy fighting around the rail junction of Debaltseve, and a rebel rocket attack on the city of Mariupol which killed 30 civilians and wounded over a hundred. Since the new rebel offensive began, rebels have acquired ~200 square miles of additional territory.

    Pro-Russian rebels reject peace deal, launch new offensive
    January 23, 2015

    Pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine rejected a previously signed peace deal Friday and launched a new multipronged offensive against Ukrainian government troops, upending recent European attempts to mediate an end to the fighting. The main separatist leader in the rebellious Donetsk region vowed to push Ukrainian soldiers out of the area and said insurgents would not take part in any more cease-fire talks. Another rebel went even further, saying they would not abide by a peace deal signed in September.


    Regarding the US sending defensive lethal weapons to Ukraine, I now tend to think the New York Times article of Feb. 1 breaking this story was a trial balloon by the Obama administration to gauge domestic and foreign reaction. Asked about arming Ukraine yesterday in his confirmation hearing before Congress, SecDef nominee Ashton Carter stated; "I very much incline in that direction ... because I think we need to support the Ukrainians in defending themselves." Clearly, such a statement would have been pre-vetted by the White House.

    Which leads me to believe the decision has already been made. Looking at it pragmatically though, when it comes to Ukraine, Obama moves at a glacial pace. US Secretary of State John Kerry is scheduled to arrive in Kyiv today (2/5/15) for consultations.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

    Repeal and Replace Trump.

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    No, pot is the number one industry in the US right now.
    Yes, but we were speaking of more harmful things!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Although both sides continued to trade sporadic artillery/rocket fire from 5 September on-wards, it was rebel actions in mid-January that killed Minsk. Those actions included a public rejection of the Minsk Agreement by rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko who also announced a new multi-front offensive which initiated heavy fighting at the Donetsk Airport, heavy fighting around the rail junction of Debaltseve, and a rebel rocket attack on the city of Mariupol which killed 30 civilians and wounded over a hundred. Since the new rebel offensive began, rebels have acquired ~200 square miles of additional territory.

    Pro-Russian rebels reject peace deal, launch new offensive



    Regarding the US sending defensive lethal weapons to Ukraine, I now tend to think the New York Times article of Feb. 1 breaking this story was a trial balloon by the Obama administration to gauge domestic and foreign reaction. Asked about arming Ukraine yesterday in his confirmation hearing before Congress, SecDef nominee Ashton Carter stated; "I very much incline in that direction ... because I think we need to support the Ukrainians in defending themselves." Clearly, such a statement would have been pre-vetted by the White House.

    Which leads me to believe the decision has already been made. Looking at it pragmatically though, when it comes to Ukraine, Obama moves at a glacial pace. US Secretary of State John Kerry is scheduled to arrive in Kyiv today (2/5/15) for consultations.
    Nice, lets have another proxy war with Russia. Need to feed the very hungry MIC.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Arming Ukraine is really stupid. We could give them all the money in the world. They would never fend off Russia if Russia really wanted Ukraine...This is a waste of time
    Better to just let Russia roll then stand up to them, we'll stop them when? Berlin?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Russia didn't start this, and all the hype about Russian aggression, and desire to annex the Ukraine and then move onto the next Eastern European country is rubbish. Russia is not willing to have the Ukraine become a NATO member on their border, and seem thus far determined to prevent it. Russia is responding to Western aggressions and intrigue.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US considers supplying arms to Ukraine forces, officials say

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Russia didn't start this, and all the hype about Russian aggression, and desire to annex the Ukraine and then move onto the next Eastern European country is rubbish.
    Lol. You need to keep up. Putin himself admitted the "little green men" who invaded Crimea were Russian forces.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

    Repeal and Replace Trump.

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