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Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Lursa said:
It doesnt matter. The people are just as dead or injured.
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Of course it matters ! Get a dictionary and look up the difference between accidental and intentional. I dont doubt we have a comparable road safety record to the US what we don't have is people also being shot by the tens of thousands every year. One is an unfortunate consequence of modern living in a developed country the other is an unnecessary and lethally irresponsible endangerment
 
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flogger said:
Of course it matters ! Get a dictionary and look up the difference between accidental and intentional. I dont doubt we have a comparable road safety record to the US what we don't have is people also being shot by the tens of thousands every year. One is an unfortunate consequence of modern living in a developed country the other is an unnecessary and lethally irresponsible endangerment
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Then please go ahead and tell me how it matters to all the dead and injured and their families?

How does it make a difference? Do they feel better because it was a car?

Come on, if you want to continue to make this claim, support it.

We CHOOSE to accept the body count from cars and some choose to view the same from guns as unacceptable *because it happened by gunfire*. It's irrational.

(one reason you seem to be unable to wrap your mind around this is because the 'intentional' deaths from guns are mostly criminal activity and gangs, while car related deaths are mostly accidental. How can you see that dead is dead and it doesnt matter? That we love our rolling death machines and just chalk up those deaths/injuries to 'part of modern life?')
 
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Lursa said:
Then please go ahead and tell me how it matters to all the dead and injured and their families?
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Because they were deliberately shot and didn't die accidently maybe ?

How does it make a difference? Do they feel better because it was a car?
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Well yes I think they'll feel quite a lot different between it being an accident and being intentional. I know I would

Come on, if you want to continue to make this claim, support it.
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US 30,000 + gun deaths per annum UK (2013) 39

We CHOOSE to accept the body count from cars and some choose to view the same from guns as unacceptable *because it happened by gunfire*. It's irrational.
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No accidents are accidents. Shootings are overwhelmingly intentional and therefore not accidents

(one reason you seem to be unable to wrap your mind around this is because the 'intentional' deaths from guns are mostly criminal activity and gangs, while car related deaths are mostly accidental. How can you see that dead is dead and it doesnt matter? That we love our rolling death machines and just chalk up those deaths/injuries to 'part of modern life?')
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This is just repetitive evasion. How can having tens of thousands of intentional gun deaths per annum in addition to your mostly unavoidable road traffic deaths be acceptable ?
 
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flogger said:
Because they were deliberately shot and didn't die accidently maybe ?

Well yes I think they'll feel quite a lot different between it being an accident and being intentional. I know I would

No accidents are accidents. Shootings are overwhelmingly intentional and therefore not accidents

This is just repetitive evasion. How can having tens of thousands of intentional deaths per annum in addition to your mostly unavoidable road traffic deaths be acceptable ?
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Wow, well that's your opinion. I dont really believe you, I think you are desperately trying to make a point, but fine.

IMO, you just choose to deny that the *actual deaths and injuries* from cars are much higher but WANT to find that acceptable, and choose to do the opposite for guns. People are just as dead or injured. I dont see any other recognition of that as rational.

And I say acceptable because people willingly and unthinkingly take their risks with cars every day and expose their children to it as well. The assume the risk without thought.

Intentional gun deaths in the US are mostly criminals and gang members. By FAR. You continue to ignore this fact which *in reality* affects very few Americans.

The accidental deaths are very sad but the numbers are on par with drowning deaths. We're not filling up our pools with dirt, now are we? The 'accidental' death from guns are then far far less than those 'accidental' car deaths. You are basically comparing apples and oranges. Yet you deny it in attempts to try and make your point...which you are basing on falsely interpreting data and pretending you dont see the difference between criminal deaths and accidental ones.
 
Lursa said:
Wow, well that's your opinion. I dont really believe you, I think you are desperately trying to make a point, but fine.

IMO, you just choose to deny that the *actual deaths and injuries* from cars are much higher but WANT to find that acceptable, and choose to do the opposite for guns. People are just as dead or injured. I dont see any other recognition of that as rational.

And I say acceptable because people willingly and unthinkingly take their risks with cars every day and expose their children to it as well. The assume the risk without thought.

Intentional gun deaths in the US are mostly criminals and gang members. By FAR. You continue to ignore this fact which *in reality* affects very few Americans.

The accidental deaths are very sad but the numbers are on par with drowning deaths. We're not filling up our pools with dirt, now are we? The 'accidental' death from guns are then far far less than those 'accidental' car deaths. You are basically comparing apples and oranges. Yet you deny it in attempts to try and make your point...which you are basing on falsely interpreting data and pretending you dont see the difference between criminal deaths and accidental ones.
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Most developed societies have vehicular accidents and thats regrettable but ultimately unavoidable. What they don't have is incurring the ADDITIONALrisk of death by intentional shooting for the simple reason they have sane gun laws which avoid this. Heads up we have criminal gangs too but they are considerably less lethal to both each other and to the wider public at large because they don't have easy access to firearms
 
flogger said:
Most developed societies have vehicular accidents and thats regrettable but ultimately unavoidable. What they don't have is incurring the ADDITIONALrisk of death by intentional shooting for the simple reason they have sane gun laws which avoid this. Heads up we have criminal gangs too but they are considerably less lethal to both each other and to the wider public at large because they don't have easy access to firearms
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Nope, there is no additional risk of intentional gunshot wounds unless you are directly involved in criminal activity. The additional risk of accidents is not out of line compared to other hobbies
 
flogger said:
Sorry you can kid yourself on as much as you like but a quick check of international comparisons show that the numbers don't lie

U.S. Has More Guns – And Gun Deaths – Than Any Other Country, Study Finds - ABC News
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Gun deaths is a meaningless number. It's a political invention.

Deaths by firearm from accidents are low, a few hundred per year at the most, when compared 75 million gun owners versus 400 accidents, the rate of death is lower then most other hobbies, no problem there

Suicide is the biggest chunk. Guns are simply a preferred method. International suicide statistics show no correlation between gun ownership and suicide rates
Suicide rates are very similar between our two countries. 11.8 In UK and 12.5 in US. That's 60% of gun deaths really as suicides which is the same as suicides in UK. Gun control won't work there.

Which leaves 11000 homicides. I'll break into that after I get off of work
 
Jerry said:
In Texas it's illegal to drive your car in public where other people can see it. You have to keep your car concealed at all times or people think you're going to run them over.
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That's good Jerry. ;) :lol:

I hope they remove that restriction before those folks get drunk enough to drive their guns. :2razz:
 
flogger said:
Sorry you can kid yourself on as much as you like but a quick check of international comparisons show that the numbers don't lie

U.S. Has More Guns – And Gun Deaths – Than Any Other Country, Study Finds - ABC News
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You were already told that those statistics arent evenly applied across the US and affect almost totally criminals, gang members, and certain socio-economic areas. You just plod back in and pretend you never heard it, that they are not valid indicators of public safety in America at all.

Your ignoring it wont make the truth go away. and several of us have posted the facts. No worries about your dishonesty, just see my signature below, in green.
 
Stupid people do stupid stuff. As a gun owner if I ever have kids or when I have the younger members of my extended family over. I would secure my guns so they can't touch them. If Im OCing around them ( a good chunk of my family does) I have my guns in sepra retention holsters.
 
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cpgrad08 said:
Stupid people do stupid stuff. As a gun owner if I ever have kids or when I have the younger members of my extended family over. I probably secure my guns so they can't touch them. If Im OCing around them ( a good chunk of my family does) I have my guns in sepra retention holsters.
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Nuff said.
 
Lursa said:
You were already told that those statistics arent evenly applied across the US and affect almost totally criminals, gang members, and certain socio-economic areas. You just plod back in and pretend you never heard it, that they are not valid indicators of public safety in America at all.

Your ignoring it wont make the truth go away. and several of us have posted the facts. No worries about your dishonesty, just see my signature below, in green.
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And as you've been told we have gangs ,criminals and deprived socio economic areas too yet your numbers still speak for themselves. Looking for excuses to blame the symptoms rather than addressing the causes is hardly a credible position. It suggests you are far more interested in protecting guns than people frankly :roll:
 
flogger said:
No its a mathematical fact
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According to the CDC. All firearm deaths in the United States was 32,351. Roughly out of a population of 320 million people in the Country. That is equals to .000101097 % of the populations dead from guns. Which means according to math, statistical it is not significant.

FastStats - Injuries
 
flogger said:
And as you've been told we have gangs ,criminals and deprived socio economic areas too yet your numbers still speak for themselves. Looking for excuses to blame the symptoms rather than addressing the causes is hardly a credible position. It suggests you are far more interested in protecting guns than people frankly :roll:
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Nope, you dont get it at all. And it speaks poorly of your grasp of reality however I have posted all I can, in the simplest terms I can, so feel free to remain in ignorance...esp. since you are in the UK and have no choice re: gun ownership.
 
cpgrad08 said:
According to the CDC. All firearm deaths in the United States was 32,351. Roughly out of a population of 320 million people in the Country. That is equals to .000101097 % of the populations dead from guns. Which means according to math, statistical it is not significant.

FastStats - Injuries
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Forget it. He's unable to process statistics properly.
 
Threegoofs said:
Nuff said.
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Did you post an apology to me yet, or even an acknowlegement, that you misread and/or misconstrued my posts regarding mandatory and voluntary training?
 
cpgrad08 said:
According to the CDC. All firearm deaths in the United States was 32,351. Roughly out of a population of 320 million people in the Country. That is equals to .000101097 % of the populations dead from guns. Which means according to math, statistical it is not significant.

FastStats - Injuries
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You are many orders of magnitude more likely to be murdered stateside and that is due to the casual access to firearms which are used in three quarters of them as has already been presented. Most developed societies would call that significant
 
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flogger said:
You are many orders of magnitude more likely to be murdered stateside and that is due to the casual access to firearms which are used in three quarters of them as has already been presented. Most developed societies would call that significant
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Sorry about overall death rates by gun the US is not even 1% of the US pop. So math is against you.
 
flogger said:
And as you've been told we have gangs ,criminals and deprived socio economic areas too yet your numbers still speak for themselves. Looking for excuses to blame the symptoms rather than addressing the causes is hardly a credible position. It suggests you are far more interested in protecting guns than people frankly :roll:
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You're suggesting gun control, while charging us for only caring about symptoms?

For that statement makes sense, you would have to State that guns cause gangs poverty in justice etc.
 
cpgrad08 said:
Sorry about overall death rates by gun the US is not even 1% of the US pop. So math is against you.
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The overall death rate for the US in all wars is far less than 1% of the current US population. You seem to have little concern for life
 
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