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Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

CaptainCourtesy said:
Which had nothing to do with my point and refuted nothing I said. If you want to be dishonest about my position, I'm going to confront you until you get it right. If you're just here to soapbox, don't quote other people's posts.
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I didn't say anything about your position!

I was merely pointing out that drivers licenses are required to drive in virtually every nation on earth, and despite bad drivers being a thing, seem to be effective in cutting down incompetent drivers, although we have no way of knowing that because, as I clearly stated, every nation on earth requires them.

If that's soapboxing, I'm sorry I involved you and your reference to bad drivers and cast a pall of shame upon you and your descendants who may be reading this centuries into the future.
 
flogger said:
These are national averages they make no distinction between your states and cities some of which are doubtless a lot worse than the stats presented here
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Exactly our point. There are cities, neighborhoods, and socio-economics that affect the numbers and those areas are very localized. Not spread out across the country evenly. That's been explained to you now a few times. Do you understand? I realize not everyone comprehends the size of the US but you did mention that you had traveled.
 
flogger said:
Of course it does

Such attempted hairsplitting doesn't trump the simple math of this
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Already refuted.


flogger said:
I'm just curious about why you would unnecessarily choose to put yourself and your family at a considerable additional (and yet wholly avoidable) risk by keeping a firearm near them. I'm assuming you are a gun owner so why would anyone choose to have lets say an AR 15 or an AK 47 in their lives ?
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Why do you believe that it's unnecessary? Is home insurance unnecessary? Are fire drills unnecessary? None of those things, including guns, are necessary until you need them. From that need comes people training to be capable of using them to do so and an interest that leads to recreational use. All things greatly valued in a society that values personal liberty.

 
flogger said:
These are national averages they make no distinction between your states and cities some of which are doubtless a lot worse than the stats presented here
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That's exactly what I said. Some really bad localities with similar stats and problems are the primary drivers. Ergo gun laws not the problem
 
Lursa said:
Exactly our point. There are cities, neighborhoods, and socio-economics that affect the numbers and those areas are very localized. Not spread out across the country evenly. That's been explained to you now a few times. Do you understand?
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Stats will vary across the UK too so what ? Even taking Europe as a whole your figures are pretty dreadful

I realize not everyone comprehends the size of the US but you did mention that you had traveled.
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To 48 countries so far and including many visits to the US
 
flogger said:
Stats will vary across the UK too so what ? Even taking Europe as a whole your figures are pretty dreadful
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You continue to make our point. You dont get it at all. Most of the US is just as safe as most of Europe. I cant write to a lower level to explain it better. I'm not a grammar school teacher.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
That's exactly what I said. Some really bad localities with similar stats and problems are the primary drivers. Ergo gun laws not the problem
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Gun law is not a problem ? With 30,000 deaths per annum. In just two years your death toll exceeds the entire 10 year toll of US involvement in Vietnam ? To put this into some kind of context we had a whole 39 in 2013
 
flogger said:
Gun law is not a problem with 30,000 deaths per annum. In just two years your death toll exceeds the entire 10 year toll of US involvement in Vietnam. To put this into some kind of context we had a whole 39 in 2013
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And you have to live in the UK to have that. The great majority of those deaths are criminals and gang members. Do you understand that as poorly as you understand how localization of the gun incidents matters?

Anyway, obviously we dont care for the trade-offs.
 
Lursa said:
You continue to make our point. You dont get it at all. Most of the US is just as safe as most of Europe. I cant write to a lower level to explain it better. I'm not a grammar school teacher.
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And I can't write to a lower level because I'm not a maths teacher
 
flogger said:
And I can't write to a lower level because I'm not a maths teacher
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You are definitely not a math teacher, your grasp of numbers and statistics and ratios is sorely lacking.

We understand what you are writing. You are writing that you dont actually understand the meaning of something you are posting. And linking to.
 
Lursa said:
You are definitely not a math teacher, your grasp of numbers and statistics and ratios is sorely lacking.

We understand what you are writing. You are writing that you dont actually understand the meaning of something you are posting. And linking to.
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Despite all the hairsplitting the plain fact is that the numbers are the numbers. You either accept them or you don't :roll:
 
JANFU said:
They took all the courses and passed. Perhaps the courses are made for idiots to pass?
Lose the rights to carry weapons for a set period- life would be a reasonable start point.
Then charging the parents, convicting them, they can serve their sentence while the other is free. Then change positions.
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What? They took parenting courses and passed? I'm guessing that no course will fix this kind of stupid.
 
flogger said:
Despite all the hairsplitting the plain fact is that the numbers are the numbers. You either accept them or you don't :roll:
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They do not reflect an accurate picture of public safety in the US, so no, I do not.

You either understand that, or you do not.
 
lizzie said:
What? They took parenting courses and passed? I'm guessing that no course will fix this kind of stupid.
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Candidates for the Darwin awards. Not the kid though. Intelligence must have skipped a generation.
 
AJiveMan said:
Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Toddler was a good shot, too bad the parents were stupid enough to leave wife's purse with a loaded gun in it for the kid to reach.

More irresponsibility from gun owners.

Authorities have taken their child away from them for the time being, but maybe too late.
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Everyday in America, this happens. Everyday. And nothing less should be expected in a nation that loves their guns. As long as these weapons are revelled, innocent people are going get at the very least hurt.
 
Lursa said:
They do not reflect an accurate picture of public safety in the US, so no, I do not.

You either understand that, or you do not.
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Either these people were shot dead or they were not. Thanks to the worship of firearms US has by far the highest gun homicide rate in the developed world. Choose to evade that essential fact as much as you want :(
 
flogger said:
Either these people were shot dead or they were not. The US has by far the highest gun homicide rate in the developed world. Choose to evade that essential fact as much as you want :(
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And what your statistics did not reflect at all was that most of those were criminals and gang members. I am neither, nor are my friends and associates. I try to avoid places where such people frequent and *I have a gun to protect me if such people attempt to attack me.*

There's nothing to evade. You are the one ignoring the truth. If you wish to trade essential freedoms for safety, that's your business.

And it's a hypocritical perspective anyway, since, as mentioned....all Americans are exposed much more equally to the danger of death and injury by cars every day. And yet, there's no outcry to ban or further restrict cars. It's not a balanced perspective but it's illuminating nevertheless.
 
Deuce said:
This is why it is impossible to talk to gun people.
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Anti-2nd amendment trash tend to use stories like this to infringe on the 2nd amendment and demonize gun owners.
To them, there just isn't anything between "private ownership of antitank missiles" and "confiscate every gun and any device that makes loud gun-like noises."
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Anyone who understands the 2nd amendment issue knows that anti-2nd amendment trash tend to work in baby steps. They do not want just anti-tank missiles banned. They want certain semi-automatic firearms banned under the guise of assault weapons bans.Then they will semi-automatic firearms not deemed to be assault weapons to be banned too. They want to prevent poor people from owning low cost firearms under the guise of Saturday night specials bans.And they to want to impose severe taxes on bullets,costly license fees, and implement costly useless things to make firearms even more expensive and thus harder for even middle class people to afford. They want to ban 20-30 round standard capacity magazines under the guise of high capacity magazine bans. Then they move onto banning 15,10 and even 5 round capacity magazines. They want to turn something that is constitutional right into state granted privilege much like driving on a public road is. While doing all of this they utter the lie that no one wants to ban firearms or take your guns away.
 
flogger said:
Having a firearm in the home makes you far less safe. The OP being just another example

Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.

In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.

In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

Theres nothing 'heroic' about putting your family at such a risk :roll:
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I have lived in a home with a firearm in it for 25 years. I have had 0 accidents. Not a scratch. My family is not at risk to firearms. They aren't stupid. Maybe you are incapable of handling firearms safely, but I'm not. Nor is my father. Funny. He never had an accident either. Weird. Maybe you are more likely because YOU can't handle safety?

Again. Fear of firearms is OK, but you shouldn't let it cloud your mind.
 
We are collectively insane as a nation. Reading through this thread is like reading through a manifesto by a psychotic. We keep wanting to blame everything other than what is truly at fault in these conditions. There are some indisputable facts in this case.

1. Guns, particularly handguns, are DESIGNED to kill and or maim.
2. Gun rights advocates will always blame either the person wielding the gun or the person that allowed someone to wield the gun.
3. Guns, particularly handguns, have been made EASY to get largely through gun rights advocates and their legislation.
4. There will always be dumb people, ignorant people, mentally ill people, violent people and smart people that do dumb things on occasion.
5. When you combine numbers 1,2 and 3 with 4 you get the COUNTLESS examples of gun violence perpetrated in this country.

Given the 5 indisputable facts above what is the most effective way to eliminate the perpetual gun violence in our country. Is it more effective to try and make dumb people smart? Insane people sane? Ignorant people educated? Smart people perfect? Or is it finally time to decide that we need strict regulation on devices that are specifically designed to kill and maim people.

Again we are insane as society if we can believe that the proliferation of guns in this country is not DIRECTLY related to amount the gun violence we have.
 
stonewall50 said:
I have lived in a home with a firearm in it for 25 years. I have had 0 accidents. Not a scratch. My family is not at risk to firearms. They aren't stupid. Maybe you are incapable of handling firearms safely, but I'm not. Nor is my father. Funny. He never had an accident either. Weird. Maybe you are more likely because YOU can't handle safety?

Again. Fear of firearms is OK, but you shouldn't let it cloud your mind.
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I have lived in a home with a pipe bomb in it for 25 years. I have had 0 accidents. Not a scratch. My family is not at risk to pipe bombs. They aren't stupid. Maybe you are incapable of handling pipe bombs safely, but I'm not. Nor is my father. Funny. He never had an accident either. Weird. Maybe you are more likely because YOU can't handle safety?

Again. Fear of pipe bombs is OK, but you shouldn't let it cloud your mind.
 
smb said:
We are collectively insane as a nation. Reading through this thread is like reading through a manifesto by a psychotic. We keep wanting to blame everything other than what is truly at fault in these conditions. There are some indisputable facts in this case.
2. Gun rights advocates will always blame either the person wielding the gun or the person that allowed someone to wield the gun.
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Er, who IS to blame in 2?

But more broadly, except for 1...and the many purposes of guns besides killing are all valid (including killing), the yearly, even daily, slaughter by personal vehicles is much higher and all the same things apply: 2-5.

Are we insane to be driving our vehicles and walking on sidewalks near vehicles?

And it doesnt matter how those people are killed or injured....dead is dead (or injured).

We seem to happily accept one. And now some people in the US are starting to object to the other. But only some :)
 
Threegoofs said:
I have lived in a home with a pipe bomb in it for 25 years. I have had 0 accidents. Not a scratch. My family is not at risk to pipe bombs. They aren't stupid. Maybe you are incapable of handling pipe bombs safely, but I'm not. Nor is my father. Funny. He never had an accident either. Weird. Maybe you are more likely because YOU can't handle safety?

Again. Fear of pipe bombs is OK, but you shouldn't let it cloud your mind.
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As long as you are responsible and keep your pipe bomb away from kids....what's the problem? You are right...inanimate objects are not generally a danger to others.
 
Threegoofs said:
I have lived in a home with a pipe bomb in it for 25 years. I have had 0 accidents. Not a scratch. My family is not at risk to pipe bombs. They aren't stupid. Maybe you are incapable of handling pipe bombs safely, but I'm not. Nor is my father. Funny. He never had an accident either. Weird. Maybe you are more likely because YOU can't handle safety?

Again. Fear of pipe bombs is OK, but you shouldn't let it cloud your mind.
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:lol:
 
Threegoofs said:
I didn't say anything about your position!

I was merely pointing out that drivers licenses are required to drive in virtually every nation on earth, and despite bad drivers being a thing, seem to be effective in cutting down incompetent drivers, although we have no way of knowing that because, as I clearly stated, every nation on earth requires them.

If that's soapboxing, I'm sorry I involved you and your reference to bad drivers and cast a pall of shame upon you and your descendants who may be reading this centuries into the future.
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Stop being dramatic. You responded to ME, and what I said, so your comments were directed at me... unless you were just soapboxing. And yes, you did comment on my position. My comment was this:

CaptainCourtesy said:
I have no issue with safety training for people who own guns. Competency, however, does not prevent stupidity.
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Here is your response:

Threegoofs said:
You'd be surprised how a minimal requirement for competency can dramatically weed out the stupid and lazy.
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This addresses my position. Now, here's the problem. In my comment, I SUPPORTED safety training for adults. Therefore, your comment makes no sense in context unless you are either agreeing with me, which you did not indicate either via comment or "like" or you were soapboxing, using my comment as a springboard, but presenting it as disagreeing with what you said. Hence the confusion over whether you were disagreeing with me... and doing so by misrepresenting my position, or you were just talking and using one of my comments as a springboard. Let me know what you had intended to communicate so this kind of confusion does not occur.
 
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