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Thread: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

  1. #171
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Nope, you still fail. In the first, they were committing a crime. Road rage is a crime.

    In the second, the whole article is not there, it's cut and pasted into someone's post comments. And from the way it reads, the unarmed basketball player was one of the ones chasing his daughter. (And he was not prosecuted, so....?)

    And if people are using their guns in an argument, they are breaking the law...commiting a crime....again, that is not what I claimed. I claimed legitimate use of a firearm in public.

    Nice try tho.

    We do know of incidents where people were carrying and did not do so to prevent a crime because it was not safe to do so. The Gabby Giffords shooting is one prominent example. There were 2 people that said there were armed in that crowd but could not do anything because it was not safe to do so. So we do have restraint and discipline documented.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #172
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    shrug...

    Then perhaps we should require one to get a license to own and operate a swimming pool.

    Of course, you can't compare swimming pools to guns, either. You know...that 2nd Amendment thing.
    But the deaths of children in cars, pools, and guns are all looked at differently, even if the numbers are similar. The bias is against guns...everybody likes their cars and pools.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #173
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    An nuclear warhead is an inanimate object too so shouild we just let everyone have one of those ?
    when civilian police departments start using them for self defense against civilian thugs-I suppose the answer would be yes



  4. #174
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I took training that I paid for. Voluntarily. So 'why is training offered at all' is one of the least intelligent things I've read here yet. People do want training. People do pay for it or get it in other ways.

    Again, we're talking about mandatory training and why it needs to be mandated if there's no evidence that training is lacking? And if you dont believe there's no data to support it, please find some. (Obviously I cant find something that doesnt exist but in many discussions on gun forums where there are gun owners that believe as you do....none has turned up.)

    I love that you miss the entire point I was making...AGAIN. No one...and this is where you screwed up with Capt. Courtesy...EVER said that training wasnt a good idea. My point is that there is no evidence that mandating training would make any difference. So why impose more govt and more $$ and more restrictions on people? Man, I ****ing HATE 'feel good' legislation that actually means nothing.
    Says training is useful.

    Then says training is not useful.

    Holding two opposing thoughts in ones mind is a cause of cognitive dissonance, you know.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  5. #175
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    The parents should listen to the duke:


  6. #176
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    Exactly my point. Vehicles are not inherently unsafe. They can be unsafe if misused. This is why we have strict regulations on their operations. Regulations generally lacking for guns which are designed to be dangerous.
    Yes, they are, the minute a human gets behind the wheel. For all their regulation and licensing and testing required for a license, the death toll and injuries from them far exceed those from guns. The regulations are apparently not stopping MORE deaths/injuries that occur from guns. So then why are those numbers 'acceptable?' Yet the fewer number from guns seem to require, in your opinion, severe restriction to banning? If that's the case, why not further restrict personal vehicles or require even more driver training?

    Do you really not realize you are making my point and not yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    I am glad you concede the point that a gun killing or maiming someone is an example of it working properly. Therefore is something that is inherently dangerous should have just as much regulation as something not inherently unsafe. Ergo we need stricter gun control regulations.
    Guns are used for many purposes. Many people have them for self-defense. I already explained that even if you dont like that, it's not up to you to decide how others choose to defend themselves and their families. Or hunt game. Or enjoy recreation. Are there other options? In some cases. Is it up to you to dictate to others? Not a chance.

    Guns are not less safe than cars. And they are at least as regulated. So again...what's your point? Enormous regulation and required training has not made cars safe. Why do you continue to buy into a failed process? Would there be more accidents if there was less regulation and driver training? Most likely. And yet....even with existing laws....drivers kill everyday AND repeatedly. Yes.....people kill over and over with cars. They often dont go to jail the first time.

    The bold is classic, btw. It may sound like a cliche, but criminals dont obey gun laws. However they do harm gun owners and carriers.

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    This is a falsehood. The vehicle regulations save thousands of lives each year. Without the regulations we have in place now vehicle deaths would skyrocket.
    Sounds good. Have any proof? And if the vehicle regulations we have NOW save thousands of lives each year, yet 10's of thousands are still killed and injured, why dont we just create more regulations and tighter driver training requirements to prevent them?

    Btw, I'm not just talking about car accidents. Here, we hear of pedestrians killed or injured every week, sometimes more than one. It's shocking, beyond belief. The high rates of harm are practically ignored...yet the far fewer gun accidents are irrationally focused on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #177
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    Resorting to ad-hom attacks does not serve your purpose well. That being said, registration is the first step to holding gun owners accountable. It is not to track ownership in order to confiscate guns. That is conspiracy theory nonsense that has no basis in reality. If you are forced to license your self in order to purchase guns we can then begin to realistically limit the ownership of guns to people without mental health issues, propensity for violence by criminal record etc. etc.
    I said you dont have a good grasp of the issues or reality (implying re: this issue). That is fact, as demonstrated by your posts. So it's not ad hom at all. Even demonstrated by your misunderstanding of my response: I never said they were used for tracking for gun confiscation. I said that the records had the potential for that. See? Real words vs. what you thought you read.

    I also never said I objected to background checks....but they arent going to keep people who want to use guns in crimes from getting them. Convicted felons know better than to try and the standards for mental illness vary from state to state and can never ever, in a free country, actually keep track of mentally ill people. But if they are prevented from buying, that's fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    We can also begin meaningful gun safety training. With that licensure comes responsibility and we can begin holding people properly responsible for their gun ownership.
    Please feel free to tell us what the bold means? How much, what to cover, how many hours, how accurate, etc? Every state has different requirements, there is no data to support what is enough or too little. Some states have NONE and there is no difference in their rates of gun accidents.

    And training has no bearing on gun crime. (It's obvious but I thought I should add it anyway.)

    Btw, the laws around using a firearm or any lethal force for self-defense already hold a person accountable for that use and will be closely examined in that jurisdiction to see if charges should be brought. Are you aware of these standards? Please demonstrate if so. (Just something brief, hint: JOA).

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    As has been pointed out numerous times by numerous people in almost limitless times...background checks are not effective as long as you have ways around them. The psychosis comes in when these obvious loopholes are pointed out and still guns rights advocates do not want to close them. If you were serious about allowing background checks for purchasing guns you would not have any problem closing all the loopholes in the system. Most notoriously in gun shows. If you are in favor of across the board background checks 100% of the time you are purchasing a gun then your psychosis is cured. If you believe there should be loopholes you still have psychosis.
    The irrationality revolves around the fact that you cannot diagnose and identify every mentally ill or potentially mentally ill person. (Has that not occured to you?) Nor the fact that guns are stolen. Such a crime is solely the responsibility of the criminal, not the owner. I am not responsible if someone steals my car and kills someone with it, am I? Nor the fact that family members have guns and other family members become mentally ill or criminals.

    btw, the largest org. in my state that puts on gun shows, WAC, has computers at the gun shows and runs backgrounds checks on the premises before allowing a sale...been in place for years. Doesnt matter tho...if a criminal wants a gun, they'll get it. The rest of us dont deserve to be punished for someone else's crimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #178
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Blah, Blah, Blah...

    Off to one of the gun rights threads with you, dude.
    Your counter is soooooooo underwhelming.

  9. #179
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Says training is useful.

    Then says training is not useful.

    Holding two opposing thoughts in ones mind is a cause of cognitive dissonance, you know.
    Never ever said training was not useful. I see now the pain Capt Courtesy felt.

    Do you not understand the difference between mandated and voluntary?

    Which part of the bold was not crystal clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I love that you miss the entire point I was making...AGAIN. No one...and this is where you screwed up with Capt. Courtesy...EVER said that training wasnt a good idea. My point is that there is no evidence that mandating training would make any difference. So why impose more govt and more $$ and more restrictions on people? Man, I ****ing HATE 'feel good' legislation that actually means nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #180
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Yes, they are, the minute a human gets behind the wheel. For all their regulation and licensing and testing required for a license, the death toll and injuries from them far exceed those from guns. The regulations are apparently not stopping MORE deaths/injuries that occur from guns. So then why are those numbers 'acceptable?' Yet the fewer number from guns seem to require, in your opinion, severe restriction to banning? If that's the case, why not further restrict personal vehicles or require even more driver training?

    Do you really not realize you are making my point and not yours?



    Guns are used for many purposes. Many people have them for self-defense. I already explained that even if you dont like that, it's not up to you to decide how others choose to defend themselves and their families. Or hunt game. Or enjoy recreation. Are there other options? In some cases. Is it up to you to dictate to others? Not a chance.

    Guns are not less safe than cars. And they are at least as regulated. So again...what's your point? Enormous regulation and required training has not made cars safe. Why do you continue to buy into a failed process? Would there be more accidents if there was less regulation and driver training? Most likely. And yet....even with existing laws....drivers kill everyday AND repeatedly. Yes.....people kill over and over with cars. They often dont go to jail the first time.

    The bold is classic, btw. It may sound like a cliche, but criminals dont obey gun laws. However they do harm gun owners and carriers.



    Sounds good. Have any proof? And if the vehicle regulations we have NOW save thousands of lives each year, yet 10's of thousands are still killed and injured, why dont we just create more regulations and tighter driver training requirements to prevent them?

    Btw, I'm not just talking about car accidents. Here, we hear of pedestrians killed or injured every week, sometimes more than one. It's shocking, beyond belief. The high rates of harm are practically ignored...yet the far fewer gun accidents are irrationally focused on.
    It still doesn't matter. Comparing vehicle safety to gun safety is a losing argument for you. If you cannot see that you are blind. As to the rest of your rant I guess it is best for you to believe I don't know what I am talking about. Or that I am gun hater or whatever. The fact is I have a clear grasp of the issues. It is the gun rights activists views which are clearly twisted. You and other gun rights activists continue to grasp after any straw you can to help you defend the defenseless. Guns are designed to be lethal. As tool that is designed to be lethal it is well within the Congress' Constitutional authority to ensure there are proper regulations to support the general welfare. All your rationalizations and bluster...and that is all you have posted here do not refute that basic fact. Guns are designed to kill and maim. The statistics are clear...more guns equals more gun violence. Less guns equals less gun violence. These facts cannot seriously be debated.

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