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Thread: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

  1. #131
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Oh my god the horror!!!! Whoever orchestrated that should be killed or jailed for life for putting all those people in danger!!!!
    I know! You'd think it was a gathering of the Reverend Jim Jones!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Stop being dramatic. You responded to ME, and what I said, so your comments were directed at me... unless you were just soapboxing. And yes, you did comment on my position. My comment was this:



    Here is your response:



    This addresses my position. Now, here's the problem. In my comment, I SUPPORTED safety training for adults. Therefore, your comment makes no sense in context unless you are either agreeing with me, which you did not indicate either via comment or "like" or you were soapboxing, using my comment as a springboard, but presenting it as disagreeing with what you said. Hence the confusion over whether you were disagreeing with me... and doing so by misrepresenting my position, or you were just talking and using one of my comments as a springboard. Let me know what you had intended to communicate so this kind of confusion does not occur.
    Springboard.

    Not misrepresenting. But not exactly agreeing, if I inferred from your response that basic safety training is not very useful.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Er, who IS to blame in 2?

    But more broadly, except for 1...and the many purposes of guns besides killing are all valid (including killing), the yearly, even daily, slaughter by personal vehicles is much higher and all the same things apply: 2-5.

    Are we insane to be driving our vehicles and walking on sidewalks near vehicles?

    And it doesnt matter how those people are killed or injured....dead is dead (or injured).

    We seem to happily accept one. And now some people in the US are starting to object to the other. But only some
    Again, this is psychosis example number 1. A car is DESIGNED to transport people from one place to another. A gun, particularly a handgun, is DESIGNED to kill and maim people. A vehicle is not. Besides we have literally hundreds of laws on the books restricting who can own vehicle, who can drive a vehicle, under which conditions they drive a vehicle. We have strict licensing protocols for operating a vehicle. If you violate any one of these laws and injure or kill someone you almost certainly will go jail.

    Now take gun laws. The only legislation restricting gun ownership from the gun rights advocates point of view is minimal or nonexistent. Licensing is considered a way to track gun owners in order to confiscate their guns...psychosis. Laws restricting the ability purchase guns is seen as attempt to prevent anyone from ever purchasing a gun...psychosis. Laws preventing people from carrying guns are seen as actively preventing people from defending themselves...psychosis.

    To more directly answer your first question...The near unfettered availability of guns in this country is directly responsible for large amount of gun violence in this country. That is a no-brainer. Anyone telling you otherwise is selling you something...probably guns.

  4. #134
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Springboard.
    OK. Good to know.

    Not misrepresenting. But not exactly agreeing, if I inferred from your response that basic safety training is not very useful.
    Then you inferred wrong. I think I was EXTREMELY clear that I support basic safety training. However, like driving, even with basic safety training, stupid people will do stupid things... though basic safety training can reduce that.
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  5. #135
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    Again, this is psychosis example number 1. A car is DESIGNED to transport people from one place to another. A gun, particularly a handgun, is DESIGNED to kill and maim people. A vehicle is not.
    So what? You are just as dead or injured in either case. How does that matter? If anything, it demonstrates that guns fulfill their purpose properly and cars are misused in the extreme and their design **is not safe.**

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    Besides we have literally hundreds of laws on the books restricting who can own vehicle, who can drive a vehicle, under which conditions they drive a vehicle. We have strict licensing protocols for operating a vehicle. If you violate any one of these laws and injure or kill someone you almost certainly will go jail.
    And yet the death and injury toll is so much higher, with all those laws and restrictions. They dont seem to be working well enough. They do not *keep people safe from cars.* Why would you expect different results when applied to guns? (Shall I quote Einstein and remind what he said about doing the same thing and expecting a different result?)

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    Now take gun laws. The only legislation restricting gun ownership from the gun rights advocates point of view is minimal or nonexistent. Licensing is considered a way to track gun owners in order to confiscate their guns...psychosis.
    Why do you think registration is required? It is definitely to track who owns a particular gun(s) and one potential reason would be confiscation. I'll ignore your insults as you dont seem to have a very good grasp of this issue or reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    Laws restricting the ability purchase guns is seen as attempt to prevent anyone from ever purchasing a gun...psychosis.
    Of course it can do that. Background checks are different in each state but they cover varying levels of mental illness diagnoses and criminal behavior. So it's FACT that using background checks to restrict gun purchases can prevent someone from ever purchasing a gun commercially. So, again, you might want to reexamine the 'psychosis' label...

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    Laws preventing people from carrying guns are seen as actively preventing people from defending themselves...psychosis.
    It doesnt prevent them from defending themselves, it removes a valid option for doing so. What gives you the right to gamble with other people's lives by telling them what they can use to save their own lives or their families? Do you know their jobs, their neighborhoods, their circumstances?

    I have never seen a single record of an innocent bystander being shot when a concealed carrier used their firearm in public. So, apparently you have a very active imagination which has enabled an irrational fear. (Hmmm....there are those labels again!)

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    To more directly answer your first question...The near unfettered availability of guns in this country is directly responsible for large amount of gun violence in this country. That is a no-brainer. Anyone telling you otherwise is selling you something...probably guns.
    Do you have a source for this? Criminals and gangs are responsible for the vast majority of gun violence in this country, not law-abiding citizens.

    More unsupported fear?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #136
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    ... though basic safety training can reduce that.
    That's the key missing phrase.
    And the more intense the safety training, the greater reduction.

    A mandatory intensive safety class seems to me to be a positive thing to require for gun ownership, especially handgun ownership.
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  7. #137
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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    That's the key missing phrase.
    And the more intense the safety training, the greater reduction.

    A mandatory intensive safety class seems to me to be a positive thing to require for gun ownership, especially handgun ownership.
    Why mandatory? Every state has different laws pertaining to the amount of training, some only on written, and some have none.

    There is no correlation at all, in studies, that shows states with mandatory training have fewer gun incidents than those with less training or no training. (there is one study between WA and OR, where WA with a higher population, a shall issue state, and no training requirements at all, has fewer gun incidents/accidents than OR which has fewer people, is a may issue state, and has training requirements. I dont have link to it anymore tho.)

    And it's not something that has any bearing on crime at all.

    Is the assumption that people just wont get training if they are not forced to? In some states, it costs people $200 or more to fulfill such requirements. A way to actively keep some people from cc permits.

    If that is your assumption, why? And if no data supports it, why mandate it? (Again, with no data to support otherwise, the assumption IS that people get necessary training on their own, not that they dont get training.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So what? You are just as dead or injured in either case. How does that matter? If anything, it demonstrates that guns fulfill their purpose properly and cars are misused in the extreme and their design **is not safe.**



    And yet the death and injury toll is so much higher, with all those laws and restrictions. They dont seem to be working well enough. They do not *keep people safe from cars.* Why would you expect different results when applied to guns? (Shall I quote Einstein and remind what he said about doing the same thing and expecting a different result?)



    Why do you think registration is required? It is definitely to track who owns a particular gun(s) and one potential reason would be confiscation. I'll ignore your insults as you dont seem to have a very good grasp of this issue or reality.



    Of course it can do that. Background checks are different in each state but they cover varying levels of mental illness diagnoses and criminal behavior. So it's FACT that using background checks to restrict gun purchases can prevent someone from ever purchasing a gun commercially. So, again, you might want to reexamine the 'psychosis' label...



    It doesnt prevent them from defending themselves, it removes a valid option for doing so. What gives you the right to gamble with other people's lives by telling them what they can use to save their own lives or their families? Do you know their jobs, their neighborhoods, their circumstances?

    I have never seen a single record of an innocent bystander being shot when a concealed carrier used their firearm in public. So, apparently you have a very active imagination which has enabled an irrational fear. (Hmmm....there are those labels again!)



    Do you have a source for this? Criminals and gangs are responsible for the vast majority of gun violence in this country, not law-abiding citizens.

    More unsupported fear?
    "The correlation between firearm availability and rates of homicide is consistent across highincome
    industrialized nations: in general, where there are more firearms, there are higher
    rates of homicide overall.16 The U.S. has among the highest rates of both firearm homicide
    and private firearm ownership. In 2001 an estimated 35% of U.S. households had a firearm."

    From http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/reso.../monograph.pdf

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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And what your statistics did not reflect at all was that most of those were criminals and gang members.
    You speak like you are the only country that has criminal gang members !

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    Re: Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So what? You are just as dead or injured in either case. How does that matter? If anything, it demonstrates that guns fulfill their purpose properly and cars are misused in the extreme and their design **is not safe.**



    And yet the death and injury toll is so much higher, with all those laws and restrictions. They dont seem to be working well enough. They do not *keep people safe from cars.* Why would you expect different results when applied to guns? (Shall I quote Einstein and remind what he said about doing the same thing and expecting a different result?)



    Why do you think registration is required? It is definitely to track who owns a particular gun(s) and one potential reason would be confiscation. I'll ignore your insults as you dont seem to have a very good grasp of this issue or reality.



    Of course it can do that. Background checks are different in each state but they cover varying levels of mental illness diagnoses and criminal behavior. So it's FACT that using background checks to restrict gun purchases can prevent someone from ever purchasing a gun commercially. So, again, you might want to reexamine the 'psychosis' label...



    It doesnt prevent them from defending themselves, it removes a valid option for doing so. What gives you the right to gamble with other people's lives by telling them what they can use to save their own lives or their families? Do you know their jobs, their neighborhoods, their circumstances?

    I have never seen a single record of an innocent bystander being shot when a concealed carrier used their firearm in public. So, apparently you have a very active imagination which has enabled an irrational fear. (Hmmm....there are those labels again!)



    Do you have a source for this? Criminals and gangs are responsible for the vast majority of gun violence in this country, not law-abiding citizens.

    More unsupported fear?
    What is the connection between vehicles and guns. None.
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