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Thread: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Maliki was a Shiite terrorist who murdered Sunni's in their beds. He also took his orders from Tehran and they wanted us out. There was nothing Obama could do short of ousting Maliki and starting all over again.


    wrong... thats not even close.. so you telling me now Obama "gave them what they wanted " and left?...that was Obamas "solution"

    wow.. what a statesmen...He showed them!!!! LOL

    what was Obamas campaign pledge?... to leave Iraq right?... he gave date he would leave. right. why would they negotiate what Obama had already given them?...

    Im worred people really dont get the Jihad... Is ISIS Shia? where is Malaki on this?
    Last edited by Travis007; 02-04-15 at 05:02 PM.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Frederick Kagan played an important part in designing the "surge" strategy the U.S. used successfully in Iraq in 2007. This is a paper he put out last fall, which I think is interesting. Note that the plan he suggests would involve a couple thousand or so special forces working with local infantry, but not usually directly engaged in combat. They would be very heavily supported by an army combat aviation brigade, dispersed to several large forward bases in Iraq, Jordan, Syria, and possibly Turkey.

    At these bases there would also be a total of about 7,000 men in a quick reaction force, of which about one-third would be available at any time. The assault and transport helicopters of the combat aviation brigade would take them and possibly some artillery, vehicles, etc. to wherever they might be needed in a fight. Most of the other forces would be supporting these ground and air forces by defending the bases, maintaining equipment, bringing in supplies, etc.

    So only a fraction of the 25,000 total involved in the effort would be within shooting range of the jihadists, and they would have all sorts of resources backing them up, e.g. attack helicopters, search-and-rescue and medevac units, and drones. And in the unlikely event that even more firepower were ever needed, carrier aircraft and even heavy bombers could be brought to bear pretty quickly.

    I agree with Kagan that an effort like this would be very risky--but that letting these people survive is even riskier yet. I remember President Kennedy's speech to the nation on October 22, 1962, when he acknowledged the dangers of the military measures he was taking--sending 100 ships and subs to blockade Cuba, moving 1,000 combat aircraft into striking range, getting 100,000 troops in position to invade Cuba, if necessary--but said the greatest danger of all would be for the U.S. to do nothing about the Soviet nuclear missiles in Cuba. He was right. That would have been an open invitation to the Soviets to take a chance, before long, on invading West Berlin. By being too anxious to avoid World War III over Cuba, we would have been asking for it to break out over Germany.

    I doubt anything like the steps Kagan proposed will happen while this President is in office--and so much the worse for this country. Islamic jihadists are the common enemies of all civilized people, and there is no living in the world with them. They are just like the bastards who attacked us on 9/11, and this time they have an even better safe haven and even more resources. Thanks to Mr. Obama, they are also being given all sorts of time to draw their plans against us.


    http://www.understandingwar.org/site...g%20ISIS_0.pdf


    That, I believe is the most enlightening post on this I have read to date.

    Dated September of last year, two months before the election, it aims to:

    Find and fix the enemy in order to:
    a.Prevent him from renewing offensive operations to take the Euphrates River Valley from Haditha to Ramadi,the area south of Samarra along the Tigris River, the Baiji oil refinery, and Baghdad itself;
    b. force the isis campaign in syria to culminate before taking Aleppo or the essential supply lines to the opposition from turkey;
    c. establish positions from which to launch subsequent operations;
    d. Prevent genocide
    So there was a solid plan well before the election that was ignored both before AND after that had at least a chance of achieving its goals which has been replaced with a vague, "no boots on the ground - we're not sure who the enemy is or what to call them" war.

    What frightens me is that the average American, for or against Obama has no idea of this, or am I in the dark?
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    That, I believe is the most enlightening post on this I have read to date.

    Dated September of last year, two months before the election, it aims to:



    So there was a solid plan well before the election that was ignored both before AND after that had at least a chance of achieving its goals which has been replaced with a vague, "no boots on the ground - we're not sure who the enemy is or what to call them" war.

    What frightens me is that the average American, for or against Obama has no idea of this, or am I in the dark?

    Bro.. you are spot on..you are not in the dark at all..

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    We need to make a decision. Either we are going to stay out of the fight or we are going to finish the job. There is no in between. The president wants to appease critics without deciding what to do either way. We should be able to finish ISIS in a few weeks if we apply our force as it should be applied. But I do agree that it isn't really our fight.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    We need to make a decision. Either we are going to stay out of the fight or we are going to finish the job. There is no in between. The president wants to appease critics without deciding what to do either way. We should be able to finish ISIS in a few weeks if we apply our force as it should be applied. But I do agree that it isn't really our fight.
    The decision is the USA made a huge mistake with allowing the media to pollute the population that Obama was not who they sold us he was...

    The world knows Obama is a zero and the Jihad knows this more then the people of the USA sadly..

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    It already has son, it already has...

    The NSA is reading this as I type it, they know who you have been calling..

    before 911 you could get on a plane simply with a boarding pass...now someone has to look up your ass and check whether you have a hat pin.
    All policies we allowed to happen by turning to government to solve every problem.

    Tell the families of the 3500 plus victims of 911 that their freedoms have not been threatened, and have a face-to-face with a survivor, better yet one of the thousands of first responders.
    As I stated, terrorism is a crime. Not an act of war.... and not one that spending billions in a foreign country is going to stop or change. Yes you can say, "Well they haven't attacked again". And that is because of our efforts at investigating, not waging war, that have prevented that.

    And tell it to the women and children in Syria and Iraq who live in abject fear of being beheaded.
    I don't recall giving a **** about the women and children of Syria and Iraq. ...
    Also, nice work on the whole "OMFG WOMEN AND CHILDREN!!" ..... Between this and the "OMFG People died on 9/11!!!!!". Yes people died.... but I don't think we have to commit genocide or destroy our dollar's value and go into economic ruin over that. There comes a point to where dead people stop supporting failing foreign wars.


    Pull your head out of the darkest place on earth and look around....in you haven't noticed, cartoonists in Paris are being slaughtered where they work....
    Murders happen. These are CRIMES. Dealt with by law enforcement agencies. You can't defeat the entirety of radical islamic ideology by waging foreign wars and driving the U.S. into trillions more debt.

    And, since you have such a strong "attitude" it might be well to remind you that the United States was invented through this process....no internet, they had to meet face to face usually armed in those days, and talk, debate and sometimes argue about what to do, what has been done and who did it.
    And WTF does that have to do with trying to fight religious ideology in the middle east? A place where everywhere we go, we only **** **** up. Iran was a nice place in the 1950s before we came in and ****ed **** up during the cold war.

    If your little "reminder" about war is a way of being sarcastic... let me ask you... Did YOU serve in the war in Iraq in 2003? I did. So im very aware of the process and what I know of the people and the region. This doesn't make me an expert...... but I would imagine a chicken hawk screaming war while sitting on his couch is vastly less qualified to speak on the matter of Wars in the Middle East.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    All policies we allowed to happen by turning to government to solve every problem.

    As I stated, terrorism is a crime. Not an act of war.... and not one that spending billions in a foreign country is going to stop or change. Yes you can say, "Well they haven't attacked again". And that is because of our efforts at investigating, not waging war, that have prevented that.

    I don't recall giving a **** about the women and children of Syria and Iraq. ...
    Also, nice work on the whole "OMFG WOMEN AND CHILDREN!!" ..... Between this and the "OMFG People died on 9/11!!!!!". Yes people died.... but I don't think we have to commit genocide or destroy our dollar's value and go into economic ruin over that. There comes a point to where dead people stop supporting failing foreign wars.


    Murders happen. These are CRIMES. Dealt with by law enforcement agencies. You can't defeat the entirety of radical islamic ideology by waging foreign wars and driving the U.S. into trillions more debt.

    And WTF does that have to do with trying to fight religious ideology in the middle east? A place where everywhere we go, we only **** **** up. Iran was a nice place in the 1950s before we came in and ****ed **** up during the cold war.

    If your little "reminder" about war is a way of being sarcastic... let me ask you... Did YOU serve in the war in Iraq in 2003? I did. So im very aware of the process and what I know of the people and the region. This doesn't make me an expert...... but I would imagine a chicken hawk screaming war while sitting on his couch is vastly less qualified to speak on the matter of Wars in the Middle East.


    well, that is an incredible job of avoiding the subject.

    You asked for someone to show you that Terrorism is a threat to safety and I did.

    What you think about Iraq in the 50's is irrelevant and, frankly, boring, I doubt you have a clue.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    And where in all that diversionary bull**** is there an answer to



    Based on what?

    But, clearly we are done here
    Based on the two reports I linked in the post you just responded to. Even the Washington Institute for Near East Studies, an arm of the Israeli Lobby states that ISIS is an outgrowth of Al Qaeda in Iraq which was formed in 2004. Read the links.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis007 View Post
    Im sorry.. but you need to back that up with something that is reality based and not just fun talking points on MSNBC...

    as far as the SOFA you are 100% incorrect..Obama made it impossible for them to agree on any troops due to his call for for representation ..that was NOT the time...but I think we all get it was all about OBAMA as always and HIS ELECTION...PERIOD...
    Obama is an abject failure...he cant negotiate a pack of gum
    You know I would say you cant make this **** up, but someone obviously did and you are repeating it. From Time Magazine's reporting at the time:

    But the decision to leave Iraq by that date was not actually taken by President Obama — it was taken by President George W. Bush, and by the Iraqi government.

    In one of his final acts in office, President Bush in December of 2008 had signed a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with the Iraqi government that set the clock ticking on ending the war he’d launched in March of 2003. The SOFA provided a legal basis for the presence of U.S. forces in Iraq after the United Nations Security Council mandate for the occupation mission expired at the end of 2008. But it required that all U.S. forces be gone from Iraq by January 1, 2012, unless the Iraqi government was willing to negotiate a new agreement that would extend their mandate. And as Middle East historian Juan Cole has noted, “Bush had to sign what the [Iraqi] parliament gave him or face the prospect that U.S. troops would have to leave by 31 December, 2008, something that would have been interpreted as a defeat… Bush and his generals clearly expected, however, that over time Washington would be able to wriggle out of the treaty and would find a way to keep a division or so in Iraq past that deadline.”

    But ending the U.S. troop presence in Iraq was an overwhelmingly popular demand among Iraqis, and Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki appears to have been unwilling to take the political risk of extending it. While he was inclined to see a small number of American soldiers stay behind to continue mentoring Iraqi forces, the likes of Shi’ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, on whose support Maliki’s ruling coalition depends, were having none of it. Even the Obama Administration’s plan to keep some 3,000 trainers behind failed because the Iraqis were unwilling to grant them the legal immunity from local prosecution that is common to SOF agreements in most countries where U.S. forces are based.
    Iraq’s Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence | TIME.com

    A big fail your attempts to rewrite history.
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    That, I believe is the most enlightening post on this I have read to date.

    Dated September of last year, two months before the election, it aims to:



    So there was a solid plan well before the election that was ignored both before AND after that had at least a chance of achieving its goals which has been replaced with a vague, "no boots on the ground - we're not sure who the enemy is or what to call them" war.

    What frightens me is that the average American, for or against Obama has no idea of this, or am I in the dark?
    This President is in the habit of making a show of action and mouthing platitudes, but doing very little that counts. Many Americans are not taken in by his habitual lying.

    The mixed force Kagan is describing is a somewhat smaller and more mobile version--with less emphasis on armor and more on armed helicopters--of the heavily armed force the U.S. has maintained at bases around South Korea, keeping the peace on the peninsula for for sixty years now. Like that force, it would also have a carrier or two on call as backup. It is what Mr. Obama should have left behind to stabilize Iraq, but--I believe for personal political gain--chose not to. All that did was create the pressing need to put a force like this back in, after the situation has deteriorated and made the job much harder and riskier.

    Now the task is to recapture large, important areas that allied servicemen died to secure not many years ago. In Iraq, at least, it is Mr. Obama's fault that these savages were allowed to take over these cities and districts. His protestations about being bound by a status of forces agreement ring false. That is a flimsy cover story cooked up to hide his dereliction.

    The L.A. Times just ran an article about plans to retake Mosul, maybe by this summer. I hope so. It's seemed to me for quite a while that because Mosul is Iraq's second-largest city, is near large oil fields, is at the farthest end of their supply lines, and is close enough to Irbil and Kurdish Iraq to make that a good base of operations, a successful campaign to retake it would badly tarnish the image of success the jihadists' appeal relies on so much. If some of them are forced to come out of the city and fight in the open, we may get to see how badly they want to fight when napalm is being dropped on them.

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