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Thread: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Based on what?


    First your Mr. Obama aid there was no Al-Qaeda in Iraq, now he says ISIS is an offshoot.


    But does it matter? They said all was cool in Iraq, no terrorists to speak of..

    but there were, enough that we now have a war. Who gives a **** about what name they happen to be using...they are Islamic Terrorists slaughtering people in the name of Allah....

    End of story
    Yes, circumstances and details are irrelevant when it comes to warmongering.
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    What you don't seem to understand is the vast majority of voters are hell bent against going into Iraq again. So we are not going to do it. You have sit here through God knows how many posts accusing the left of losing wars and basically of cowardice in the face of a threat, but your ass sure as hell is not planning on going over there to fight this war you want the United States to commit to even though you are almost certainly of fighting age and I would assume physically able.
    I dont think anybody WANTS to go back it. Thats not the same thing as what we have already done and are doing.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Yes, circumstances and details are irrelevant when it comes to warmongering.


    Details is what I asked for, but thank you for that refresher course in leftist debate tactics.

    On what do you base your assertions?

    What details, facts, intelligence, rumor, White House lie, whatever is there that you draw such sweeping conclusions?

    Warmongering? Please make a case where I have done so, and skip the cheap theatrics, just answer the ****ing question...
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Details is what I asked for, but thank you for that refresher course in leftist debate tactics.

    On what do you base your assertions?

    What details, facts, intelligence, rumor, White House lie, whatever is there that you draw such sweeping conclusions?

    Warmongering? Please make a case where I have done so, and skip the cheap theatrics, just answer the ****ing question...
    You obviously haven't read the thread then.

    The discussion you are responding to pertained to the origin of ISIS. It was my contention that ISIS would not exist were it for our going into Iraq in the first place back in 2003 and that going back in is pointless when the real problem is that the government of Iraq is so corrupt and inept that it cannot defeat ISIS in its own country when most estimates put the total size of ISIS in both Syria and Iraq as just 30,000 or so militants while the Iraqi Defense Force constitutes 271,500 active personnel and 528,000 in reserve (Iraqi Armed Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

    Even if some how we miraculously killed every single member of ISIS overnight, it would only be a matter of time before another Islamist group took its place. If a nation with a military the size of the one we left Iraq with cannot defend itself against just 30,000 militants, then what can we do other than occupy the nation indefinitely.

    Moreover, origins of a terrorist organization do indeed matter because we don't want to simply create more such organizations by our actions. The entire neo-conservative ideology as it relates to terrorism was built around the notion that our containing and or supporting strong man dictators in the Middle East was the central catalyst for Islamic extremism and that by democratizing the Middle East we remove that catalyst for the creation of extremists. The traditional conservatives as well as many moderates believed that the only thing keeping radical Islam in check in much of the Middle East was the brutal repression by strongman dictators and attempting to impose western style democracy on a culture that never went through the enlightenment would only result in more terrorists.

    In the case of Iraq, prior to our going in it was a country ruled by a dictator that was contained and no longer a threat to us. The forerunner to ISIS, Al Qaeda in Iraq did not exist until 2004 - after we went in. So we took a country that was contained and not a threat to us and created an environment that fostered the growth of radical Islamist groups that were a threat to us. So yes, facts and details do matter here.

    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/u...e_20_Zelin.pdf

    http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Yes, circumstances and details are irrelevant when it comes to warmongering.
    and the Jihad is "not war mongering"????....the people we save sure dont think we are war mongering..

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    You obviously haven't read the thread then.

    The discussion you are responding to pertained to the origin of ISIS. It was my contention that ISIS would not exist were it for our going into Iraq in the first place back in 2003 and that going back in is pointless when the real problem is that the government of Iraq is so corrupt and inept that it cannot defeat ISIS in its own country when most estimates put the total size of ISIS in both Syria and Iraq as just 30,000 or so militants while the Iraqi Defense Force constitutes 271,500 active personnel and 528,000 in reserve (Iraqi Armed Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

    Even if some how we miraculously killed every single member of ISIS overnight, it would only be a matter of time before another Islamist group took its place. If a nation with a military the size of the one we left Iraq with cannot defend itself against just 30,000 militants, then what can we do other than occupy the nation indefinitely.

    Moreover, origins of a terrorist organization do indeed matter because we don't want to simply create more such organizations by our actions. The entire neo-conservative ideology as it relates to terrorism was built around the notion that our containing and or supporting strong man dictators in the Middle East was the central catalyst for Islamic extremism and that by democratizing the Middle East we remove that catalyst for the creation of extremists. The traditional conservatives as well as many moderates believed that the only thing keeping radical Islam in check in much of the Middle East was the brutal repression by strongman dictators and attempting to impose western style democracy on a culture that never went through the enlightenment would only result in more terrorists.

    In the case of Iraq, prior to our going in it was a country ruled by a dictator that was contained and no longer a threat to us. The forerunner to ISIS, Al Qaeda in Iraq did not exist until 2004 - after we went in. So we took a country that was contained and not a threat to us and created an environment that fostered the growth of radical Islamist groups that were a threat to us. So yes, facts and details do matter here.

    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/u...e_20_Zelin.pdf

    http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf

    How does ISIS get money? who funds them?..who allows them to be able to operate?... Obamas NOT WANTING A SOFA agreement was the reason ISIS exists today...Obama delcared the war OVER....the JIHAD did not agree...Obama only cared about VOTES... NOT LIVES..

    You post is so error filled my mind is boggled... Did Saddam allow training of AQ?

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis007 View Post
    How does ISIS get money? who funds them?..who allows them to be able to operate?... Obamas NOT WANTING A SOFA agreement was the reason ISIS exists today...Obama delcared the war OVER....the JIHAD did not agree...Obama only cared about VOTES... NOT LIVES..

    You post is so error filled my mind is boggled... Did Saddam allow training of AQ?
    I don't even know why you bother with these liberals? They're just fine living in our country, just so long as they don't have to do any heavy lifting. People like Michael Moore, and those just like him make me want to puke! They're cowards not only of spirit, but of conviction, and I fear the latter is the more reprehensible!

    Tim-
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis007 View Post
    How does ISIS get money? who funds them?..who allows them to be able to operate?... Obamas NOT WANTING A SOFA agreement was the reason ISIS exists today...Obama delcared the war OVER....the JIHAD did not agree...Obama only cared about VOTES... NOT LIVES..

    You post is so error filled my mind is boggled... Did Saddam allow training of AQ?
    The only Al Qaeda operations at all in Iraq prior to our going in there was in the Kurdish controlled areas of Northern Iraq.

    As to the SOFA agreement. The Iraqi government, which is a puppet of Iran, did not want us to stay. Moreover, if we did stay one of their conditions was that we would have to subject our soldiers to their courts. I am sure that is perfectly acceptable to you.

    Finally, as I pointed out earlier, what difference would it have made. As if that would have kept ISIS from taking over so much of the country... Had we just left a couple of thousand of our soldiers walled off in the green zone. That way not only would ISIS be taking over the county, they would use are presence as propaganda arguing they are liberating Iraq from the western imperialists. At which point we would either have to have another huge buildup for another surge to tamp down the Islamists in the country again, or just pack up and leave under worse circumstances than what we left under.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I don't even know why you bother with these liberals? They're just fine living in our country, just so long as they don't have to do any heavy lifting. People like Michael Moore, and those just like him make me want to puke! They're cowards not only of spirit, but of conviction, and I fear the latter is the more reprehensible!

    Tim-
    This is what it boils down to-they are only concerned with breaking down American society and extracting the wealth of others. They have no courage...no principles.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    so what is it you would like a person running for President to say?

    In your opinion Walker should have promised no boots on the ground against ISIS???

    ANY presidential hopeful who would be foolish enough to say such a thing doesn't deserve a single vote.

    it's that type of small thinking that got us into this situation. Under Bush you people couldn't stand that the United States was "hated" by other countries. Well you got your wish. we aren't hated anyone. Instead we are the world's PUNCHING BAG(your problem with walker's statement is just the one thousandth example of it). I'm glad that helps you sleep better, but I PROMISE YOU the rest of us in this country would much rather be the first than be the second. And nothing will change until the highest political office is out of democrat control.

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