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Thread: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    BHO and Biden called it a victory. You're saying they were wrong?
    It was a victory of sorts . Like Vietnam we won when we got out.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Your view is not in contradiction to mine. As a matter of fact, it's complimentary. Whatever reason Reagan used to rapidly increase funding of religious extremists like Osama Bin Laden it shows an enormous lack of foresight. The Reagan administration simply did not foresee any problems with giving money to Islamic fundamentalists. We are now left to deal with the fruits of that particular harvest.
    Right. I suppose with all of the benefit of hindsight everything is obvious. Cool for you. Reagan did the right thing. You want an administration to look 40 years into the future. Obama was unwilling or unable to look two years into the future.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Yea, and it's that response that ends up with the death of Americans. Maybe no response at all is preferable in this case.
    Oh yes. We did that in the 90s and then also post 2010. How'd it work out, anywho? Everything turn out hunkydory?

    As Hitchens so ably pointed out, if Western intervention doesn't occur, it doesn't mean that "nothing happens". It means something else happens. And in that case the driver of events and shaper of the future is not only a sworn mortal enemy of anyone who isn't them, they're psycho-evil to boot. Yeah. Let's let them gain power. That won't possibly go wrong.


    If that comes off as abusive, it isn't intended to be directed specifically at you. But the idea that we can have our cake and eat it to by ignoring the worlds' problems while hoping that they'll all turn out alright just strikes me as stupendously, willfully, blinded, and I tend to react with bitter sarcasm. It's like arguing that we educate inner city youth, but they keep committing crimes, maybe we should stop educating them.

    Incidentally, when we actually applied that approach (speak to them in their language, explain that we are here to win, that we will win, and that we will murder Every. Single. One. of them in order to do so), the result was that we saw a leveling off and then sharp reduction in dead and wounded Americans. No one wants to be the ally of a loser, and even fewer want to have their tribe demolished and then be killed by a superior opponent.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You have now changed your question and it still devalues the scale of the crisis faced in Iraq by orders of magnitude. The forces of Northern Iraq (Primarily the 2nd Division in Mosul) fought for three days against the ISIS attackers with few weapons and ammunition. Many of the 2nd Division did die defending Mosul, but they lost. They were poorly trained, and they needed support and continued training to be a self sufficient force. When Obama pulled the US troops out of Iraq the Iraqi military had not yet conducted a single counter insurgency operation without US logistics and support. They weren't ready.

    Everyone in the world knew they weren't ready, including ISIS who waltzed in as soon as the US troops were gone. It was a mystery only to Obama, I suppose... but then that is expected given that they don't give updates of combat readiness of Iraq Military divisions on Sports Center.




    The northern armies were poorly equipped and poorly funded. When the US pulled out of Iraq the military went in to a panic and tried to consolidate what they had, moving most forces resources to a ring around Baghdad. Poor logistics (again, something the US was handling) left them badly overestimating the readiness of their Northern defenses. There is no doubt that grave mistakes were made by the Iraqi military in the months leading up to the ISIS invasion, but to write it off as simple cowardice is just a lie you tell yourself so you can ignore what is happening in Iraq.



    Yep. How long do you think it takes to build a first world military in a third world country? The edge for ISIS is in their barbarity. Ruthless, insane blood letting is as effective a military tool now as it has ever been.
    I see, you only blame running away Iraqis on being poorly supplied and trained, and blame Obama for the mess now, when in fact, America should never have gone there in the first place.

    And you never answered any of my questions.

    I'll rephrase it for you.

    If you're being attacked, do you turn tail and run, or do you fight back?

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    I see, you only blame running away Iraqis on being poorly supplied and trained, and blame Obama for the mess now, when in fact, America should never have gone there in the first place.
    B-b-but Booooosh.

    And you never answered any of my questions.
    Your questions were juvenile and in no way related to the topic at hand.

    I'll rephrase it for you.

    If you're being attacked, do you turn tail and run, or do you fight back?
    Again, your question is idiotic. The Iraqi forces did fight back against ISIS contrary to whatever rag you get your news from.

    If you fight back and get your ass handed to you and know your opponent wants to cut your head off do you then run or offer up your neck?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Maybe, but maybe not.

    Sometimes you can avoid conflict simply by flying under the radar. It's entirely possible that the US is just too large and economically and culturally powerful to not be noticed, and hated, by people all over the world though.

    My best guess is that if we had never got involved with mid-east politics to begin with, 911 would have never occurred.

    So far, other than a couple retaliatory beheadings, and some spouting off at the mouth, ISIS has done nothing to the US, and has shown no serious motivation or intent to attack the US with terroristic acts.

    As far as your point goes, I fully support our current level of support in the fight against ISIS. We have little need to make this into an all out war, the longer we keep ISIS tied up in Iraq and Syria, the less likely they are to be able to put any real effort into attacking us at home. Our only need is to contain them, and it's unrealistic to think that we could ever kill every radical Islamist who would wish to do us harm.

    It's not like there are only X individuals who would do us harm, and we kill X, and it's over with. There are X today, minus whatever we kill, plus whatever new radical are recruited by ISIS or are created indirectly by the US in response to our involvement in the middle east. As long as we are involved with the middle east, we will always have enemies there.
    They come for us because of who we are, not because of what we do. They plot and plan every day to do us harm.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Are you just falling in with the rhetoric..... or can you actually explain how this is true?
    They hate us for who we are, not because of what we do. Their rage has its roots in the failure of their own society.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    They come for us because of who we are, not because of what we do. They plot and plan every day to do us harm.
    Thank God that they are planners and not doers.

    We would have major problems if they actually "came at us" ever day.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    It was a victory of sorts . Like Vietnam we won when we got out.

    That was not the sense of their claim.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Thank God that they are planners and not doers.

    We would have major problems if they actually "came at us" ever day.
    The fact that they do not succeed does not mean they do not try.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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