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Thread: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...

    2. That region in particular is actually more likely to respond to violence. It's a language they understand, unlike western empathy.
    Yea, and it's that response that ends up with the death of Americans. Maybe no response at all is preferable in this case.
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    That didn't answer my question.

    If someone declares by physical violence upon you as a person, are you going to defend yourself, or run away from a fight?
    You have now changed your question and it still devalues the scale of the crisis faced in Iraq by orders of magnitude. The forces of Northern Iraq (Primarily the 2nd Division in Mosul) fought for three days against the ISIS attackers with few weapons and ammunition. Many of the 2nd Division did die defending Mosul, but they lost. They were poorly trained, and they needed support and continued training to be a self sufficient force. When Obama pulled the US troops out of Iraq the Iraqi military had not yet conducted a single counter insurgency operation without US logistics and support. They weren't ready.

    Everyone in the world knew they weren't ready, including ISIS who waltzed in as soon as the US troops were gone. It was a mystery only to Obama, I suppose... but then that is expected given that they don't give updates of combat readiness of Iraq Military divisions on Sports Center.


    Looks to me like Iraqis ran from a fight, and they had the most modern equipment to use against an insurgency.
    The northern armies were poorly equipped and poorly funded. When the US pulled out of Iraq the military went in to a panic and tried to consolidate what they had, moving most forces resources to a ring around Baghdad. Poor logistics (again, something the US was handling) left them badly overestimating the readiness of their Northern defenses. There is no doubt that grave mistakes were made by the Iraqi military in the months leading up to the ISIS invasion, but to write it off as simple cowardice is just a lie you tell yourself so you can ignore what is happening in Iraq.

    After mission accomplished, weren't American and coalition forces training Iraqis to defend their homeland?
    Yep. How long do you think it takes to build a first world military in a third world country? The edge for ISIS is in their barbarity. Ruthless, insane blood letting is as effective a military tool now as it has ever been.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 02-03-15 at 03:40 PM.
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Nope. Your whole argument falls apart on your phony demographics. The Iraqi 2nd Division that was the first to fall was predominantly Kurdish troops fight for a predominantly Kurdish population. The primary reason for the fall of Northern Iraq was a lack of ammunition and weapons and a crumbling supply chain (the stuff the US would have been handling). Most of the northern provinces were defended by soldiers with dwindling supplies.
    Again it was for sectarian reasons that the Kurds lacked ammunition and weapons. Maliki refused to supply the Kurds even though we were supplying the weapons and urged him to share. There was never any hope for a stable Iraq as long as Maliki was in charge. He took his orders from Iran and they HATE the Kurds. If we had any sense we would have denied the Shia there choice of leaders and foregone those much hailed "free" elections. but that would have denied Bush his "victory" so for purely political reasons we backed Maliki and sealed Iraq's fate.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Again it was for sectarian reasons that the Kurds lacked ammunition and weapons. Maliki refused to supply the Kurds even though we were supplying the weapons and urged him to share. There was never any hope for a stable Iraq as long as Maliki was in charge. He took his orders from Iran and they HATE the Kurds. If we had any sense we would have denied the Shia there choice of leaders and foregone those much hailed "free" elections. but that would have denied Bush his "victory" so for purely political reasons we backed Maliki and sealed Iraq's fate.
    That's an odd claim since it is well known that Iran is arming the Kurds and I've seen reports that they are fighting along side them.

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    That's an odd claim since it is well known that Iran is arming the Kurds and I've seen reports that they are fighting along side them.
    You are the odd one. Iran is definitely not arming the Kurds or fighting with them. Iran has a large Kurdish population and they fear a separatist movement just like Turkey.
    Why Iran Fears Iraq

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You are the odd one. Iran is definitely not arming the Kurds. Iran has a large Kurdish population and they fear a separatist movement.
    Why Iran Fears Iraq
    Really??

    Iraq Crisis: Effort to Aid Kurdish Forces Puts Iran, U.S. on Same Side
    MAKHMOUR, Iraq—The struggles of the embattled Kurdish Peshmerga to repel Islamist insurgents have put the U.S. and Iran on the same side, with both rushing to reinforce a revered fighting force to defeat a common enemy.
    Iraq Crisis: Effort to Aid Kurdish Forces Puts Iran, U.S. on Same Side - WSJ

    UPDATE 3-Iran provided weapons to Iraqi Kurds; Baghdad bomb kills 12
    Aug 26 (Reuters) - Iran has supplied weapons and ammunition to Iraqi Kurdish forces, Kurdistan President Massoud Barzani said on Tuesday at a joint press conference with Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif in Arbil, capital of Iraq's Kurdish region.

    The direct arming of Kurdish forces is a contentious issue because some Iraqi politicians suspect Kurdish leaders have aspirations to break away from the central government completely. The move could also be seen by some as a prelude to Iran's taking a more direct role in a broader Iraqi conflict.

    "We asked for weapons and Iran was the first country to provide us with weapons and ammunition," Barzani said.
    UPDATE 3-Iran provided weapons to Iraqi Kurds; Baghdad bomb kills 12 | Reuters

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Again it was for sectarian reasons that the Kurds lacked ammunition and weapons.
    Again, false. You are either knowingly lying or using terrible sources. Your argument doesn't even make sense given the reality of the lead up to the ISIS invasion. For the better part of a year Maliki was pleading with the Obama administration to provide logistics and air support to his northern defense forces.

    But it should be noted that you have now quietly abandoned your idiotic claim that Iraqi forces broke in Northern Iraq due to being all Shia and not wanting to defend Sunnis.

    Now you want to claim the they were undefended because mummblemummblemummbleSectarianDifferences. Bull crap.

    Maliki refused to supply the Kurds even though we were supplying the weapons and urged him to share.
    False again. Maliki realized in the lead up to the war that the US was not going to help him so he was left with the position of having insufficient forces to defend the Iraqi borders so what he did was what any sane person would do, he pulled forces back to consolidate the defense of the most populated areas of Iraq. Had he sent more forces to the North and lost then Baghdad would be flying an ISIS flag.

    Had he sent a large contingent to defend Mosul he would have left central Iraq wide open.

    There was never any hope for a stable Iraq as long as Maliki was in charge. He took his orders from Iran and they HATE the Kurds.
    Saddam hated the Kurds to, was Iraq unstable under Saddam?

    If we had any sense we would have denied the Shia there choice of leaders and foregone those much hailed "free" elections. but that would have denied Bush his "victory" so for purely political reasons we backed Maliki and sealed Iraq's fate.
    Complete non-sense. You are failing to tie the ISIS invasion success to political infighting in Baghdad. It simply isn't the case. The fall of Mosul was due to critically insufficient military resources managed badly after the US left them in a lurch.
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Iguanaman is proving to be entirely uneducated on all things Iraq and making amazingly and demonstrably false statements with every post.
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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Yes there has been a bit of a turnaround lately but I would not misinterpret Iran's motives.

    Meanwhile, Iran’s rush to aid the Sunnis among Iraqi Kurds expresses Iran’s tripartite strategy towards Iraq, Syria and Turkey. Tehran wants to dominate the area to protect its influence in Baghdad. It also aims to control eastern Syria and to influence Kurdish relations with Turkey. Arabs don’t have plans to dominate or to gain influence in either Iraq or in Syria and they also avoid raising Turkey’s suspicions. Iran, however, is less concerned about respecting the rules of the regional security balance. Iran desires to take over Iraq at any price by presenting itself as the protector of Sunni Kurds and Shiite Arabs.
    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/view...the-Kurds.html

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    Re: Gov. Scott Walker: Don't Rule Out 'Boots on the Ground' Against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Yes there has been a bit of a turnaround lately but I would not misinterpret Iran's motives.



    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/view...the-Kurds.html
    TRANSLATION: I was wrong, but really don't want to admit it.

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