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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

"So what do you see that is common? Unvaccinated people traveled here from a part of the world where a disease is common. They brought the disease from another country into this one and infected a place where the disease was rare prior to their arrival.

Now we have the Insane One on the golf course who invited hundreds of thousands of carriers from parts of the world where these diseases are common. That Insane Monster had his regime's minions plant the disease carriers into communities around the nation. And people are getting sick from diseases that were rare."
JasperL said:
We're bordering on Poe's Law territory with the latest rants.... I'm not sure it's healthy to get that worked up this early in the AM.
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For the Fifth Column who side with the nation's Insane One in chief no argument will move you onto the right side of history.
 
Misterveritis said:
You were delighting in the "anti-vaxxers". Given that you believe they, and not The Insane One's illegal alien invasion, are the reason for the renewed illnesses and deaths It is logical that you would delight in the non-vaccinated getting sick and dying.
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I was never "delighting in the ant-vaxers". I was pointing out they put their kids at risk and other kids at risk and then pointing out the absurdity of their reasons for not vaccinating. As to unvaccinated illegals coming into the country, that is all the more reason to be vaccinated and I am all for doing more to crack down on illegal immigration.
 
paddymcdougall said:
Misterveritis, if you want to start a thread about whether illegal immigrants are enemy invaders please do so.

This is a thread about vaccination. Unless you have some link to show that illegal immigrants are more likely to spread diseases that can be stopped by vaccination rates (even though they are from countries with higher vaccination rates), your points are really off-topic here.
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Illegal enemy invaders are the carriers of diseases the vaccinations are about. You are free to ignore me.
 
Misterveritis said:
Right. I do not believe we will get real information until after The Insane One is forced out of office or ends his reign of error. Keep your head buried in the sand and continue to blame your neighbor.

Deep down in the dark recesses of your heart you know I am right.
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So, you don't have an answer other than your hatred for Mexicans and the president. I don't have dark recesses of my heart, I don't harbor obsessive hate of the president, nor do I use him as an excuse to blame my current state in life upon.
 
JasperL said:
It's been cited a half dozen times.
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I haven't read those threads so cite it again, otherwise I'll just chalk that little non-factoid up to :bs

JasperL said:
But if we're all showing our work, how about a citation for the claim the illegals are diseased and are being unleashed in these communities without health evaluations and all the rest?
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Here's a doc that was done between Calif and Mexico showing the lacking inoculations of Mexico Nationales and the US. Note that the US has in quite a few areas showing more inoculations and boosters.
http://www.borderhealth.org/files/res_1509.pdf

JasperL said:
Or how about the person I responded to citing the net illegal flows during this administration versus the last one - oh yeah, I did that, the illegal population has declined under Obama - increased by nearly 4 million in the last administration, etc.
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How about you show the 99% first before trying to change the topic by asking a lot of other questions in an attempt to change the subject.
 
paddymcdougall said:
He seems to be. Pretty much makes his rants not worth reading.
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It is funny to read, but you have to remember that the fringe is a tiny sliver of the population.
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

Misterveritis said:
When you delight in bringing in illegal aliens to supplant American citizens you reveal the evil in your heart and the Democratic Party's strategy to achieve one party, Soviet style rule.

It is pure evil.
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What's so bizarrely funny is here are rough numbers:

Bush - 500,000 per year, roughly 4 million new illegal aliens in total
Obama - 0 per year, roughly negative 500,000 new illegal aliens in total

And through your insanely partisan lens, conclude it's Obama's fault.... It's ODS at it's finest.

ods.jpg
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

JasperL said:
What's so bizarrely funny is here are rough numbers:

Bush - 500,000 per year, roughly 4 million new illegal aliens in total
Obama - 0 per year, roughly negative 500,000 new illegal aliens in total

And through your insanely partisan lens, conclude it's Obama's fault.... It's ODS at it's finest.

ods.jpg
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Lmao... I don't suppose you have any supporting evidence?
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

Misterveritis said:
When you delight in bringing in illegal aliens to supplant American citizens you reveal the evil in your heart and the Democratic Party's strategy to achieve one party, Soviet style rule.

It is pure evil.
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American citizens are immigrants or the children thereof. They wouldn't be illegal if we brought them here legally. Mexican =/= illegal
 
Ockham said:
I haven't read those threads so cite it again, otherwise I'll just chalk that little non-factoid up to :bs

Here's a doc that was done between Calif and Mexico showing the lacking inoculations of Mexico Nationales and the US. Note that the US has in quite a few areas showing more inoculations and boosters.
http://www.borderhealth.org/files/res_1509.pdf

How about you show the 99% first before trying to change the topic by asking a lot of other questions in an attempt to change the subject.
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Immunization, measles (% of children ages 12-23 months) | Data | Table From 2012 to 2013 it went from 99% to 89% It fluctuates within that range. Their immunization rate is a tad higher than ours, so it's complete ignorance to blame them brown skinned messicans. Blame the idiot parents who aren't vaccinating their kids.
 
Ockham said:
I haven't read those threads so cite it again, otherwise I'll just chalk that little non-factoid up to :bs
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Do what you want. Here's the link Vectors or Victims? Docs Slam Rumors That Migrants Carry Disease - NBC News

It last cited in post 1051 on this thread. You were post 1053 so I'm surprised you missed it.

How about you show the 99% first before trying to change the topic by asking a lot of other questions in an attempt to change the subject.
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Bottom line is the person I responded to made a baseless claim - that it's illegals spreading disease and being unleashed in his community. If he or you want to claim it's a flood of diseased invaders spreading disease in these helpless communities, which is what I was responding to, then prove it.

But if you want some reading, how about this: Is there a link between the measles outbreak and illegal immigration? - The Washington Post

Or you can read the CDC reports on the outbreaks, such as this Most come from U.S. residents traveling abroad and bringing the disease back home. About half from Europe. France has a bad problem with measles - thousands of cases.

Here's the World Bank immunization breakdown by country for measles. Peruse as you want - France is lower than most of South America, far lower than Mexico most years.

Here's a story about the Disneyland outbreak - it indicates Mexico has been infected but as part of the broader event - not as the source.

But, again, the obligation is on the accuser - if he or you think it's dirty illegals spreading disease, let's see some evidence. Bigotry isn't evidence.
 
Re: Pure evil. This is the face of the Democratic Party. And Establishment Republican

BmanMcfly said:
Lmao... I don't suppose you have any supporting evidence?
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About what? The numbers of illegals? If so then read the thread - it's been posted, as recently as this morning.

But in case your Google doesn't work, try this: As Growth Stalls, Unauthorized Immigrant Population Becomes More Settled | Pew Research Center's Hispanic Trends Project

PH-2014-09-03-immigration-01.jpg

Point out for me the Obama flood of dirty, diseased invading children...
 
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JasperL said:
Do what you want. Here's the link Vectors or Victims? Docs Slam Rumors That Migrants Carry Disease - NBC News

It last cited in post 1051 on this thread. You were post 1053 so I'm surprised you missed it.



Bottom line is the person I responded to made a baseless claim - that it's illegals spreading disease and being unleashed in his community. If he or you want to claim it's a flood of diseased invaders spreading disease in these helpless communities, which is what I was responding to, then prove it.

But if you want some reading, how about this: Is there a link between the measles outbreak and illegal immigration? - The Washington Post

Or you can read the CDC reports on the outbreaks, such as this Most come from U.S. residents traveling abroad and bringing the disease back home. About half from Europe. France has a bad problem with measles - thousands of cases.

Here's the World Bank immunization breakdown by country for measles. Peruse as you want - France is lower than most of South America, far lower than Mexico most years.

Here's a story about the Disneyland outbreak - it indicates Mexico has been infected but as part of the broader event - not as the source.

But, again, the obligation is on the accuser - if he or you think it's dirty illegals spreading disease, let's see some evidence. Bigotry isn't evidence.
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Good links. Thanks.

Perhaps other countries should require Americans prove they are vaccinated before we go to their countries?
 
HenryChinaski said:
Immunization, measles (% of children ages 12-23 months) | Data | Table From 2012 to 2013 it went from 99% to 89% It fluctuates within that range. Their immunization rate is a tad higher than ours, so it's complete ignorance to blame them brown skinned messicans. Blame the idiot parents who aren't vaccinating their kids.
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So first things first.... it's not 99% in 2014 (you don't have that data) but went down from 99% to 89% between 2012 and 2013, so in reality it's 89% with the latest data you've provided.

Second, you may actually have a point were the majority of immigrants coming into the US were originating from Mexico but they're not. 2013 and 2014 were primarily from Central America - according to this article, specifically from Honduras, El Salvador and Gutemala. Those countries immunizations according to your own link are:

Honduras 98 95 93 89
El Salvador 92 89 93 94
Gutaemala 93 89 93 85

As you didn't happen to mention that little fact, and you didn't bother to identify what vaccinations these people from these 3 non-Mexican nations were inoculated with nor how often, it leaves potentially thousands of kids who crossed the Texas border illegally who were not vaccinated at all - especially since those people may have been born decades ago. What was the vaccination rate in those countries say in the 1970 and 1980's? Add that to the mix for their parents.

To sum up: Central American nations weren't in your calculation. We don't know what the inoculation / vaccinations are in the 3 countries specified nor their frequency, and recent numbers only identify children under the age of 4 years old given your link. No vaccination information was posted for the 1970's or later for parents crossing the border from these countries.


Lots of questions still unanswered.
 
JasperL said:
Do what you want. Here's the link Vectors or Victims? Docs Slam Rumors That Migrants Carry Disease - NBC News

It last cited in post 1051 on this thread. You were post 1053 so I'm surprised you missed it.
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It's 89% from 2013's latest data. Seems you missed it. I've already posted the 3 Central American vaccination %'s in a reply to Henry. Do you happen to know what was included in those 3 countries vaccinations and how many initial and boosters? No?

JasperL said:
Bottom line is the person I responded to made a baseless claim - that it's illegals spreading disease and being unleashed in his community. If he or you want to claim it's a flood of diseased invaders spreading disease in these helpless communities, which is what I was responding to, then prove it.
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The bottom line is Mexico immigrants were a minority and therefore irrelevant. Central America is the focus. Second, no Central American vaccination information was included regarding what the vaccinations were nor the frequency.

JasperL said:
Here's the World Bank immunization breakdown by country for measles. Peruse as you want - France is lower than most of South America, far lower than Mexico most years.
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As we already pointed out by me, Mexicans in 2014 were a minority - Honduras, El Salvador and Gutemala illegals were crossing the border in 2013 and 2014.

Perhaps more information is needed but you seem to have made up your mind without that information... I'd rather have more facts and less bs.
 
Ockham said:
It's 89% from 2013's latest data. Seems you missed it. I've already posted the 3 Central American vaccination %'s in a reply to Henry. Do you happen to know what was included in those 3 countries vaccinations and how many initial and boosters? No?

The bottom line is Mexico immigrants were a minority and therefore irrelevant. Central America is the focus. Second, no Central American vaccination information was included regarding what the vaccinations were nor the frequency.

As we already pointed out by me, Mexicans in 2014 were a minority - Honduras, El Salvador and Gutemala illegals were crossing the border in 2013 and 2014.

Perhaps more information is needed but you seem to have made up your mind without that information... I'd rather have more facts and less bs.
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The fact is you've cited nothing to indicate that the measles or any other outbreak can be traced to the invasion of dirty, diseased illegal children. That was the claim that I responded to. If you want more facts and less BS, you should direct your concern to the person making that claim based entirely, so far as I can tell, on bigoted stereotypes.
 
Ockham said:
So first things first.... it's not 99% in 2014 (you don't have that data) but went down from 99% to 89% between 2012 and 2013, so in reality it's 89% with the latest data you've provided.

Second, you may actually have a point were the majority of immigrants coming into the US were originating from Mexico but they're not. 2013 and 2014 were primarily from Central America - according to this article, specifically from Honduras, El Salvador and Gutemala. Those countries immunizations according to your own link are:

Honduras 98 95 93 89
El Salvador 92 89 93 94
Gutaemala 93 89 93 85

As you didn't happen to mention that little fact, and you didn't bother to identify what vaccinations these people from these 3 non-Mexican nations were inoculated with nor how often, it leaves potentially thousands of kids who crossed the Texas border illegally who were not vaccinated at all - especially since those people may have been born decades ago. What was the vaccination rate in those countries say in the 1970 and 1980's? Add that to the mix for their parents.

To sum up: Central American nations weren't in your calculation. We don't know what the inoculation / vaccinations are in the 3 countries specified nor their frequency, and recent numbers only identify children under the age of 4 years old given your link. No vaccination information was posted for the 1970's or later for parents crossing the border from these countries.


Lots of questions still unanswered.
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Keep twistin' and spinning all you want. Whatever you need to do to keep laying blame on brown people. It's not religious missionaries traveling abroad who could be responsible, or the millions of tourists traversing the globe every year. It's dem brown skinned illegals..
 
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HenryChinaski said:
Keep twistin' and spinning all you want. Whatever you need to do to keep laying blame on brown people.
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No need to twist - the facts are Mexico was not the issue but Central America - funny how you missed that REALLY important fact.
I don't recall blaming anyone just asking for more facts on Central America's vaccinations which you seem to not have - can you post them?

While your accusations are pathetic, you may want to actually have facts to bolster your claim instead of opinion.
 
JasperL said:
The fact is you've cited nothing to indicate that the measles or any other outbreak can be traced to the invasion of dirty, diseased illegal children. That was the claim that I responded to. If you want more facts and less BS, you should direct your concern to the person making that claim based entirely, so far as I can tell, on bigoted stereotypes.
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I may not have cited anything because I'm not trying to prove that point. My point is more information is required not about Mexico but about Central America where these illegals originated from.

If you want to stay uninformed I fully support your right to do that.
 
Ockham said:
I may not have cited anything because I'm not trying to prove that point. My point is more information is required not about Mexico but about Central America where these illegals originated from.

If you want to stay uninformed I fully support your right to do that.
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Looking at the My link. Glancing just at Panama, Guatemala, and Ecuador, they have immunization rates in the high 80's and 90's. About on par with us. Blaming brown skinned people is weak and serves only to further demonize this group of people.
 
Misterveritis said:
Do you believe that matters? The Insane One on the golf course created this. When it is you or your child who is killed by diseases brought here by invaders will it matter to you that today it is only a few hundred who have been harmed?

Where do you live. I will start a movement to send the illegals the feds planted into my community to yours. You will win big. And we will lose a little less.
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Yes I think that matters. I'm not going to freakout and start running around claiming the sky is falling when there is in fact no evidence that the sky is falling.
 
HenryChinaski said:
Looking at the My link. Glancing just at Panama, Guatemala, and Ecuador, they have immunization rates in the high 80's and 90's.
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Which is great for children under the age of 4 since your link identifies the last 4 years only, but we still don't know what was in those vaccinations nor how often they were issued, how many boosters were provided, etc.

HenryChinaski said:
About on par with us. Blaming brown skinned people is weak and serves only to further demonize this group of people.
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That's two times you used that
strawman_zps1zmya2bf.png
- I'm not blaming anyone so your accusation is ignored. What are the vaccinations in those 3 countries since the 1970's - do you have a link for that because I couldn't find one, nor one that identifies what vaccination were used back then nor the changes between then and now.
 
Ockham said:
Which is great for children under the age of 4 since your link identifies the last 4 years only, but we still don't know what was in those vaccinations nor how often they were issued, how many boosters were provided, etc.

That's two times you used that
strawman_zps1zmya2bf.png
- I'm not blaming anyone so your accusation is ignored. What are the vaccinations in those 3 countries since the 1970's - do you have a link for that because I couldn't find one, nor one that identifies what vaccination were used back then nor the changes between then and now.
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Haven't looked for the 70's stats. If we do find those, will you then ask for 60's stats?
 
Ockham said:
I may not have cited anything because I'm not trying to prove that point. My point is more information is required not about Mexico but about Central America where these illegals originated from.

If you want to stay uninformed I fully support your right to do that.
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You're not, but you jumped into the middle of a conversation in which I and others responded to very specific claims. I'll quote two, but you can review them all if you like:

Ask the asshole doctor just how many of the millions he has seen and treated. The Insane One on the golf course had his regime's minions bussed the illegals all over the nation. We had many dozens forced upon us. None have been vaccinated against the diseases that were once rare here. But we are forced to accept them in our midst.
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And this one:

Bush did not invite the illegal invasion responsible for this re-emergence of diseases. The Insane One on the golf course did that. Do you believe The Insane One's Illegal Million were from Mexico? Where were you over the last two years. The Insane One colluded with another hostile enemy country, Mexico, to allow hundreds of thousands of illegal invaders to pass through Mexico to strike our communities.
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OK, so notice what the claims were - illegals, none vaccinated, responsible for the re-emergence, MEXICO, hundreds of thousands of invaders, Obama did it all (of course).

That's the conversation you jumped into. If you want to point out that the vaccination rate for measles in Mexico dropped in 2013, fine. So between "none" and "89%" which person made the most accurate statement? It wasn't the person claiming none were vaccinated.

How about the specific claims it's these kids who are responsible? There is NO evidence of that, but there is evidence it was from travelers here legally, or Americans returning home from abroad.

Why are some of us pointing out the immunization rate for Mexico - because we're responding to a claim that Obama colluded with MEXICO to send these kids here.

How about the hundreds of thousands of invaders? That happened for roughly 8 straight years under Bush, zero years for Obama.

Etc. It's fine to jump in, but don't be surprised when our responses are to specific claims made by the person we are responding to, instead of some other point you'd like to address.
 
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