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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

Bodhisattva said:
Again with that ridiculous "You support smaller government so ultimately you support dissolution of the United States" rubbish?
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Yes. I know it's ridiculous. The entire point is that this method of argument is ridiculous.

If I support a smaller government then I support a smaller government. There is still a government so there is still a United States...
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No ****, sherlock.

And maybe you and Bman can learn from this:

My support of vaccinations as a pre-requisite for attending public schools doesn't mean I support total government control over your body. Get it? Do you understand?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Nobody has a right to force anything on people... especially the government. If your child cannot get vaccinated then that is like a kid born that has to walk gingerly with crutches their entire life. Are other children not allowed to run in that kids vicinity? What if they do and knock the kid down and he has that Osteogenesis imperfect (brittle bones) or something else terrible? Life is not fair.
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That is where the herd immunity comes into play. The fewer kids with the ability to carry the disease, the fewer chances of exposure to vulnerable kids. And kids not vaccinated or with any other health problems will always have higher risks and may have to take other measures as well. Like wearing masks.

Of course life isnt fair. But schools have the responsibility to do the best they can for the largest number of students. Those that can are compelled to, in order to reduce the risks to those than cannot.
 
Lursa said:
They dont. Suicide is illegal in many states.
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By the early 1990s only two states still listed suicide as a crime, and these have since removed that classification

Suicide legislation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The govt can send you to war and dictate just about everything about your body.
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...and that is unconstitutional. It violates the 5th Amendment...

And there are laws governing seat belts and safety helmets.
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True and although I find those unconstitutional an adult should be allowed to choose for themselves... not for anybody under 18 though as they are not adults.
 
mac said:
It's not likely to cause an epidemic, and even if it does...not much of anything that it is prevented by vaccinations these days is likely to kill many anyway.
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Yeah. Because of the vaccinations.
 
Quag said:
And complications from surgery.
Guess only an idiot would have that cancerous tumor removed, after all they might die on the operating table
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Medical mistakes are the #3 leading cause of death now. Only an idiot believes that doctors are gods.
 
Lursa said:
He's basing his entire arguments on 50+ yrs ago and seems to think that 500 child deaths per year from a disease are 'negligible.'
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191.9 million (1964 US population)

Yes, 500 deaths are actually negligible if you look at it from a pure numerical perspective.
 
bicycleman said:
But why is there a situation, today? If the disease was all but eradicated before 1963, what has prompted the disease to rear its ugly head today where medicine is 10 times better than it ever could have been in 1963? Is it a real epidemic, or a made up one?
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OMG Do you not have any idea what this discussion is about?

Because in recent years, many parents have not had their kids vaccinated, after decades of much higher vaccination rates. So there are many more kids in society vulnerable to measles. :doh

Really, you are just wasting everyone's time here.
 
Lursa said:
My mother's a nurse and thinks this woman is an idiot. (Well, her thoughts anyway)

There's nothing wrong with having your kids tested for possible allergic reactions to vaccines and their preservatives or being assessed because of other medical conditions. Doctors do support that :doh
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What points does your mother disagrees with in this woman's video?
 
Tettsuo said:
191.9 million (1964 US population)

Yes, 500 deaths are actually negligible if you look at it from a pure numerical perspective.
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Complications from vaccines are even more negligible if you look at it from a pure numerical perspective.

Did you ever substantiate the idea that "natural" immunity lasts longer? it's a fast-moving thread, I may have missed it.
 
Lursa said:
The govt can send you to war and dictate just about everything about your body.
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The draft violates the thirteenth amendment.
 
Lursa said:
But sure, blame the people that 'cant' vaccinate their infants.
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See... that is the problem. This late last century notion that somebody has to be at blame. It has to always be somebodies fault. :roll:

So, it's still the law so you can disagree.
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Slavery was the law as well... unconstitutional. Period.
 
Tettsuo said:
191.9 million (1964 US population)

Yes, 500 deaths are actually negligible if you look at it from a pure numerical perspective.
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Tell that to their parents. Compared to the overall protections from the vaccinations. Tell it to the parents of the babies that died in one state in the last 3 years of whooping cough...that could have been prevented if vaccination rates had been maintained.

It's mind boggling, the ignorance on this issue.
 
Deuce said:
Yes. I know it's ridiculous. The entire point is that this method of argument is ridiculous.



No ****, sherlock.

And maybe you and Bman can learn from this:

My support of vaccinations as a pre-requisite for attending public schools doesn't mean I support total government control over your body. Get it? Do you understand?
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I am not Bman... your argument might apply with him but it does not with me.
 
Bodhisattva said:
See... that is the problem. This late last century notion that somebody has to be at blame. It has to always be somebodies fault. :roll:



Slavery was the law as well... unconstitutional. Period.
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It's not like the numbers and deaths are made up. Nor the success of vaccination. So yeah, fault.

Not slavery, please. That's pathetic. The success of vaccination, again, is clear.
 
Lursa said:
That is where the herd immunity comes into play. The fewer kids with the ability to carry the disease, the fewer chances of exposure to vulnerable kids. And kids not vaccinated or with any other health problems will always have higher risks and may have to take other measures as well. Like wearing masks.

Of course life isnt fair. But schools have the responsibility to do the best they can for the largest number of students. Those that can are compelled to, in order to reduce the risks to those than cannot.
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Since most people will get vaccinations most kids will be safe.ish. Forcing the few that don't want to get them into getting them is simply wrong. Herd immunity will still exist. Nobody has a right to force anything on people... especially the government. I don't care if all of most of humanity wants to avoid vaccinations and practically everybody dies and you and a very few survive. So what. People die. Where does this, "we have the right to tell you that you MUST have to best chance to live a longer life" come from? The arrogance to use force on people is astounding.
 
BmanMcfly said:
So, ultimately you support a medical "martial law"?
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Let us know when you see that on the horizon Chicken Little.

And btw, in a true involuntary quarantine situation, that's exactly what the govt has planned and we'd be well to keep up with public health, travel restrictions when needed, and vaccines to try and prevent it.
 
Lursa said:
It's not like the numbers and deaths are made up. Nor the success of vaccination. So yeah, fault.
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No fault. That is simply whining.

Not slavery, please. That's pathetic. The success of vaccination, again, is clear.
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The slavery analogy was clearly against forced conscription into the military. CLEARLY.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Since most people will get vaccinations most kids will be safe.ish. Forcing the few that don't want to get them into getting them is simply wrong. Herd immunity will still exist. Nobody has a right to force anything on people... especially the government. I don't care if all of most of humanity wants to avoid vaccinations and practically everybody dies and you and a very few survive. So what. People die. Where does this, "we have the right to tell you that you MUST have to best chance to live a longer life" come from? The arrogance to use force on people is astounding.
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That's your opinion. Mine is that selfishness and ignorance regarding vaccination places actual innocent kids at more risk. So I see it as simply wrong.

And herd immunity is not static and it's efficacy is fluid. There can be 'more' and 'less.'
 
Bodhisattva said:
The slavery analogy was clearly against forced conscription into the military. CLEARLY.
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actually I didnt make that connection at all. it wasnt in what you quoted or posted.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I fail to see how driving a car without a license is analogous to not getting a vaccination in any way, shape or form. I think you misunderstood my point...
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Because their decisions are selfish...they can unintentionally kill people because they didnt bother to get proper training.

Is that off the mark? I may have misunderstood.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The slavery analogy was clearly against forced conscription into the military. CLEARLY.
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As I said before..

It is true to say that their body and their will are no longer theirs as they subject to the draft at the governments decree, and on that decree they can be forced to kill and to place their own life in jeopardy. When a man steals away another man and makes him kill for his favor he has not only kidnapped him, but has forced him to be his hired gun to kill all those he opposes. He is without doubt a slave.
 
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Lursa said:
Tell that to their parents. Compared to the overall protections from the vaccinations. Tell it to the parents of the babies that died in one state in the last 3 years of whooping cough...that could have been prevented if vaccination rates had been maintained.

It's mind boggling, the ignorance on this issue.
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That is right... tell that to the parents of children that died as a result of getting vaccinated. Tell that to the parents of the kids that started drooling within minutes or went deaf soon after vaccinations. Tell that to the parents. Tell that to the parents that get scoffed at or ridiculed by the medical community just like some of the ****ing low life pieces of **** do on this site that it is idiotic ignorance to not vaccinate. Tell that to me... please. Call me ignorant. Really... please. Then we can see what kind of person you really are. Others are welcome to as well...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Go ahead and get it... there is no way I would give my kids a vaccination for something that is not basically deadly or deadly serious...
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I plan to. The last time I looked into it, I wasnt 'old enough' and insurance wouldnt cover it. It's rare in people under 50 apparently.
 
mac said:
It's not likely to cause an epidemic, and even if it does...not much of anything that it is prevented by vaccinations these days is likely to kill many anyway.
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You have no idea what you are talking about do you? Anything can mutate and become impervious to medicines or vaccines. But I wasnt speaking specifically about measles. Any epidemic.

And it's not a question of if, but when. If SARS hadnt been caught quickly and contained, it had the potential to do so. A new variation of the flu may do so someday....the Spanish Flu was a mutation of something very common.


Gratuitous vanity shot: Just part of my epidemiology library, doesnt include what's on my Kindle either.

 
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Lursa said:
actually I didnt make that connection at all. it wasnt in what you quoted or posted.
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It was in direct response to your quote about the draft. That is fine but I don't see how you could of missed it. Now, at least, you see it.

Because their decisions are selfish...they can unintentionally kill people because they didnt bother to get proper training.

Is that off the mark? I may have misunderstood.
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I don't know. Too many posts... :lol:

Let's just move on.
 
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