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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

Taylor said:
...could describe something like scarlet fever, but it was never considered "common" to die from measles.
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Not common at all. As of 2013 there were only 145,700 deaths to measles. And it is one of the leading causes of death of young children.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

So tell me. Why would you not get a cheap vaccination that could save your child? And the lives of other people's children? There is only one reason: stupid.
 
Hatuey said:
You know you're a 90s kids if your vaccines were mandatory and nobody in your school died from 19th century diseases.
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We didn't have anyone die from any diseases that we get vaccinated for growing up in the 80s and 90s. In fact I remember hearing about kids getting mumps, but not dying from them.
 
roguenuke said:
Because some people do not agree with putting foreign substances into their body, and that should be their choice, especially for something like chicken pox.

And shingles doesn't really work like chicken pox, despite being the same virus. Shingles is only contagious through contact with the sores/bumps of an affected person, kind of like after getting the smallpox vaccine. The sore that develops is contagious which is why we had to keep ours covered til it went away and the band aids went into a special trash an.
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Should it be your choice to jeopardize the health of another person's infant?
 
stonewall50 said:
Should it be your choice to jeopardize the health of another person's infant?
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Wouldn't it be the fault of the parent to bring their infant around other people?
 
roguenuke said:
We didn't have anyone die from any diseases that we get vaccinated for growing up in the 80s and 90s. In fact I remember hearing about kids getting mumps, but not dying from them.
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http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

Plenty of kids die from measles. And to think, we nearly eradicated it here in the states, but some dingbat decided to be a dirty ass hippy and put people's lives at stake. You want to know something interesting? Nobody would die from measles if you just vaccinate until the damn thing is gone.
 
Tettsuo said:
Wouldn't it be the fault of the parent to bring their infant around other people?
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Yea. God forbid they expect an infantile level of logic from other humans. Are you aware of how virus can be transmitted? That infant doesn't have to be "out in public."

A dirty hippy doesn't vaccinate their infant. Infant gets measles. Dirty hippy doesn't bathe, touches another person, who touches another person, who touches someone who goes home and gives their kids the measles.

Seriously. Give me one GOOD reason to not vaccinate. I've asked multiple times. I've heard nothing. Why wouldn't you vaccinate your kid?
 
Tettsuo said:
FYI, even the chicken pox vaccine is now mandatory to school is many states.

IMO, this mandatory crap has gone too far.

I'm sure in a few years, chicken pox will be called a deadly disease.
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Evasion. You're still ignoring the complications of measles.
 
Tettsuo said:
Wouldn't it be the fault of the parent to bring their infant around other people?
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Why are you unwilling to accept any responsibility for your hypothetical decision not to vaccinate yourself or your child?
 
stonewall50 said:
Should it be your choice to jeopardize the health of another person's infant?
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You're not. Nature is. People are at risk all the time, even infants and even from preventable things.
 
stonewall50 said:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

Plenty of kids die from measles. And to think, we nearly eradicated it here in the states, but some dingbat decided to be a dirty ass hippy and put people's lives at stake. You want to know something interesting? Nobody would die from measles if you just vaccinate until the damn thing is gone.
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Maybe I should have been more clear. I was referring to what I knew about and the cases I knew of as a child.

But people who are vaccinated still can get the measles. In fact many my age only have one of those shots so are at a higher risk.
 
Deuce said:
It's a general "you." Clearly, what I am saying is applied to the general population and not just yourself.
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Fair enough...

Starting an epidemic isn't violating a different person?
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It is a childish way to look at it.

If I have a common cold and you catch it I "violated" you.

If I take a dump and you breath in my gaseous fecal matter elements I have "violated" you.

Many things "violate" people... the real and only relevant question is: Was it intentional?

Lastly, not getting vaccinated (maintaining bodily sovereignty, which was the argument presented) is not starting an epidemic.

I can defeat these silly arguments all day long and not even start breathing hard...
 
paddymcdougall said:
You want to have the benefits of society -i.e. public school - you follow the rules - vaccinate your kids.

Nothing in the constitution about public schools, as far as I know. I happen to think they are very important and part of what makes our country great; but they didn't really become big until the 1800s.

Mississippi has a 99+% vaccination rate for kids in kindergarten because they only allow medical exemptions, and few of those. Parents who don't like it can home school or go to private schools.
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I could Slippery Slope "for the greater good" all day up to and including tracking devices in everybody in order to maintain National Security... Bodily Sovereignty has already been upheld with regards to abortion. The precedent is set.
 
mac said:
False premise. Attendance at school is required.



It doesn't need to be in the constitution, so long as all the acts passed regarding education are in keeping with the constitution. Which they have been.
.
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Two VERY good points...
 
Tettsuo said:
Because vaccines are injected, they bypass the normal system of immune response. This is why many vaccines wear off far earlier than simply getting the virus.

Immunity: Natural and Acquired | Vaccines.gov
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No where does it say that vaccines are less effective than natural immunity. Vaccines stimulate the normal immune response and focus it on producing specific antibodies.
 
Tettsuo said:
Because vaccines are injected, they bypass the normal system of immune response. This is why many vaccines wear off far earlier than simply getting the virus.

Immunity: Natural and Acquired | Vaccines.gov
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Claim not supported by link.

You keep claiming "natural" immunity lasts longer, but I haven't seen anything to substantiate that.

Furthermore, it doesn't really matter how long "natural" immunity lasts because the only way to acquire it is to become seriously ill first.

Vaccinations have clearly reduced the number of people who have to experience serious side effects in order to gain immunity to a disease because you can just avoid the disease in the first place with vaccinations.
 
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bicycleman said:
You got it right there, cousin. Our mothers took time off for us as children and took care of us. My mother didn't go to work until I finished high school. Today's mothers don't have time for their children because they are too busy working along with their husbands to pay for lifestyles they don't need, while their children die of diseases due to their neglect. Instead, these parents expect the government to take care of their children because they don't have time. There's that, "it takes a village" concept all over again. If parents don't have time to care for their children, they should never have had them. The "village", the government has no place in raising your child.
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No. My mother was required to take time off because the added exposure to measles, etc while pregnant endangered me, her unborn child.

Your statement is ridiculous. A mother at home isnt doing much to protect her kids from diseases they are exposed to at school. Unless she gets them vaccinated.
 
bicycleman said:
I grew up in the 50's and measles vaccines were unheard of. It was a typical childhood disease that children got. We weathered it and moved on. Now, someone is carrying a torch for a disease that is just what it is, a typical childhood disease. Get the disease, and you're immune for life. It is not the end of the world.
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And many kids died from it too. Or went blind or had other complications.

Whooping cough has re-emerged here in WA St. Infants have died from it for the last 3 years.

Sure, you can not give a **** about those babies but I bet their parents wouldnt agree with you.
 
Ikari said:
Not sure you understand how statistics works then. Places like Colorado have had immunization levels near 80% for years, and there's not a stack of dead bodies.
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Lursa said:
Not sure you understand how herd immunity works then...because when we see more and more unvaccinated people and the disease starts circulating......
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........

There are several things you dont seem to understand about it but one thing herd immunity helps with are those that cannot be vaccinated due to medical reasons. Herd immunity provides them with *some* protection but bringing them into less contact with the disease.

Kids still die. If you dont want to pay attention until their bodies pile up, that's up to you.

It's been happening here in WA St for 3 yrs with whooping cough. Lack of vaccination has led to several dead babies a year. Not enough to rate in your system apparently.
 
stonewall50 said:
Yea. God forbid they expect an infantile level of logic from other humans. Are you aware of how virus can be transmitted? That infant doesn't have to be "out in public."

A dirty hippy doesn't vaccinate their infant. Infant gets measles. Dirty hippy doesn't bathe, touches another person, who touches another person, who touches someone who goes home and gives their kids the measles.

Seriously. Give me one GOOD reason to not vaccinate. I've asked multiple times. I've heard nothing. Why wouldn't you vaccinate your kid?
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Mumps is best known for the swelling of the cheeks and jaw that it causes, which is a result of swelling of the salivary glands. People who show symptoms usually recover after a week or two, but mumps can occasionally cause serious complications.

The most common complication is inflammation of the testicles (orchitis) in males who have reached puberty; rarely does this lead to fertility problems.

Other rare complications include:
•Inflammation of the brain and/or tissue covering the brain and spinal cord (encephalitis/meningitis)
•Inflammation of the ovaries (oophoritis) and/or breasts (mastitis) in females who have reached puberty
•Deafness

Mumps | Complications | CDC

MMR vaccine side-effects
(Measles, Mumps, and Rubella)

What are the risks from MMR vaccine?

A vaccine, like any medicine, is capable of causing serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions. The risk of MMR vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.
Getting MMR vaccine is much safer than getting measles, mumps or rubella. Most people who get MMR vaccine do not have any serious problems with it.

Mild Problems
• Fever (up to 1 person out of 6)
• Mild rash (about 1 person out of 20)
• Swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck (about 1 person out of 75)

If these problems occur, it is usually within 7-12 days after the shot. They occur less often after the second dose.

Moderate Problems
• Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses)
• Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4)
• Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses)

Severe Problems (Very Rare)
• Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
• Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including:
◦ Deafness
◦ Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
◦Permanent brain damage

Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Side Effects

Damn... looks like the RARE reactions to the vaccine are far worse than the RARE reactions to Mumps itself... why take the ****ing shot then? :roll:
 
joko104 said:
Yes, children with compromised immune systems should not be in general public school.
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Why not if they can be adequately protected with vaccination programs? Those that CAN be vaccinated should be so that those that CANNOT be vaccinated have less exposure to the disease.
 
bicycleman said:
I was 17 then, and nobody called for me to be vaccinated for it. By the time I was in high school, no one ever worried about measles. We had all had it. Nobody ever was out sick with it because it was understood that we now had the immunity to it.
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That has zero to do with the situation today.
 
Deuce said:
Why are you unwilling to accept any responsibility for your hypothetical decision not to vaccinate yourself or your child?
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Why doesn't the parent deserve responsibility for bringing their unvaccinated child into contact with people knowing that some choose to not vaccinate in today's day and age?

It is nature people... it is a big scary world with lots of bad **** going on in it. If I send my kid to school with peanuts and they share with your kid that is allergic who's fault is it?

**** happens...
 
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