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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

I never said you didnt want any govt. I said your silliness comparing a slippery slope from vaccination to eugenics was no different than your claims of unfairness re: no govt from others.

And it was miscommunication...you said to Gina that if they forbade unvaccinated kids from schools then the schools had to send teachers to the homes. I was saying that was not the case here in the US. That SCOTUS ruled years ago that they could and that schools do so here....dont allow unvaccinated kids. Depends on the state and district. And that there are currently challenges to that but so far they still could and there was no obligation to send any teachers to individual homes.

You know what would be more effective than the school district approach? Requiring parents to submit their child vaccination records in order to claim them as a dependent for taxes......
 
I never said you didnt want any govt. I said your silliness comparing a slippery slope from vaccination to eugenics was no different than your claims of unfairness re: no govt from others.

And it was miscommunication...you said to Gina that if they forbade unvaccinated kids from schools then the schools had to send teachers to the homes. I was saying that was not the case here in the US. That SCOTUS ruled years ago that they could and that schools do so here....dont allow unvaccinated kids. Depends on the state and district. And that there are currently challenges to that but so far they still could and there was no obligation to send any teachers to individual homes.

It was a miscommunication. All good. Sorry...

I will go back and say again that if the state denies entrance into a school for an unvaccinated kid then the state needs to supply that kid with a teacher...
 
You never said you wanted no government.

And nobody in this thread ever said they wanted eugenics or to ban the unvaccinated from all public spaces. Those were a result of folks like yourself extrapolating arguments to extremes. Just like "no government" was extrapolating your arguments to extremes.

Neither was valid. Agree?

I am not sure... I agree that I never said I wanted no government but I don't agree that my extrapolation from banning kids from schools (which Gina did state) to banning them from the DMV or post office is invalid nor is the further push to sterilize certain people because the argument was "for the greater good of society". The greater good for society is this bland blasé generality that could mean anything and I was illustrating that.
 
Have any links that support that?

And even though you get the flu shot every year, and will continue to get it every year

Which is not a problem, because the flu shot doesn't hurt. But unlike the vaccines for say smallpox, or diphtheria, or polio, which are like 90–95% effective The flu shot is a gamble based off of what strains the medical community believes will be occurring. So if you get your flu shot, and you get a strain of flu that your flu shot doesn't cover and it's a bad one, you can get pneumonia, and become disabled or even killed by pneumonia

But the pneumococcal vaccine is just as effective as say the polio vaccine. So even though you get your flu shot every year, check up and see if you have the pneumococcal and if you don't go get that one. So that at least if you get a bad flu, you are likely to not get pneumonia which is the number one cause of flu deaths
 
It was a miscommunication. All good. Sorry...

I will go back and say again that if the state denies entrance into a school for an unvaccinated kid then the state needs to supply that kid with a teacher...

Why? A teacher is paid $40,000 a year plus benefits, the vaccine cost 10 bucks. It makes more sense for the state to pay for one and not the other
 
I am not sure... I agree that I never said I wanted no government but I don't agree that my extrapolation from banning kids from schools (which Gina did state) to banning them from the DMV or post office is invalid nor is the further push to sterilize certain people because the argument was "for the greater good of society".

Then I don't agree with you. I don't agree that your argument doesn't lead to anarchy.
 
Why? A teacher is paid $40,000 a year plus benefits, the vaccine cost 10 bucks. It makes more sense for the state to pay for one and not the other

I am not in favour of mandatory vaccinations. That should never be legal. If the state wants to pay for them though that is great.
 
Then I don't agree with you. I don't agree that your argument doesn't lead to anarchy.

I don't see how you make that leap, in all honesty.
 
I am not in favour of mandatory vaccinations. That should never be legal. If the state wants to pay for them though that is great.

They wouldnt be mandatory. It would not be illegal to not vaccinate your child. But they would not be admitted to school. And the school would not be (has not been) obligated to make other arrangements for your child. Private schools have more license to do this but public schools have been requiring it as well before allowing registration of a child.

But as I wrote, there are challenges to this in the courts now...and probably more coming. But it will be about allowing unvaccinated kids into schools, not providing private teachers :)
 
I am not in favour of mandatory vaccinations. That should never be legal. If the state wants to pay for them though that is great.

So the hell what? We shouldn't base public health decisions on what you are in favor of.

We need to realize, that the actual inconvenience of being vaccinated is so low, and the benefits so great, opting out should not be an option. Okay you miss a flu shot no big deal because scientifically speaking, flu doesn't kill people and the flu shot is ineffective, The rest of the vaccine should be completely mandatory. I don't care, if you believe that tomato paste and herbal supplements will keep you healthy, don't care if you think Jesus is going to cure you


And I think, that is an unvaccinated person comes in contact with someone who cannot be vaccinated for a legitimate medical cause, and they get sick and die that unvaccinated person should be charged with manslaughter
 
I am not in favour of mandatory vaccinations. That should never be legal. If the state wants to pay for them though that is great.

If they were free...they could force you to vaccinate your kid? (if a doctor felt it was safe) That would be ok?


That would not be ok with me.
 
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I don't see how you make that leap, in all honesty.

If the government can't require vaccines for the greater good, why can it have speed limits? What about health codes? If the government can't protect children from deadly illnesses, why can it protect them from terrorism?

Slippery slope is ****ing stupid.
 
So the hell what? We shouldn't base public health decisions on what you are in favor of.

We need to realize, that the actual inconvenience of being vaccinated is so low, and the benefits so great, opting out should not be an option. Okay you miss a flu shot no big deal because scientifically speaking, flu doesn't kill people and the flu shot is ineffective, The rest of the vaccine should be completely mandatory. I don't care, if you believe that tomato paste and herbal supplements will keep you healthy, don't care if you think Jesus is going to cure you


And I think, that is an unvaccinated person comes in contact with someone who cannot be vaccinated for a legitimate medical cause, and they get sick and die that unvaccinated person should be charged with manslaughter

I don't care that you don't care in all honesty...

I am in favour of the public vaccinating. It should not be mandatory though...

Stop being dramatic. **** happens. If you can't get vaccinated and contact the disease then that is how life goes. There are bubble kids that can't go out because they have almost no immune system. Should everybody be mandated a flu shot too? How about we mandate we all wear HazCham suits everywhere too...
 
If the government can't require vaccines for the greater good, why can it have speed limits? What about health codes? If the government can't protect children from deadly illnesses, why can it protect them from terrorism?

Slippery slope is ****ing stupid.

You are the one taking it down the slippery slope... government should not be able to force anything on a person. Unless a person intentionally targets a person or is intentionally negligent with their disease they have done nothing wrong and first they would have to even know they had the disease. Most spread it prior to even knowing the have it.
 
government should not be able to force anything on a person.

Product safety testing. Speed limits. Pilot recurrent training. Food handling regulations. Nuclear power plant safety standards.
 
If they were free...they could force you to vaccinate your kid? (if a doctor felt it was safe) That would be ok?


That would not be ok with me.

No. It would be simply nice if they made them free.

Look, I know people are on me about this but my kids are not vaccinated because of my ex-wife. Well, one has some vaccinations but since she almost died we stopped. My ex is paranoid about them now even though I know that she had an adverse reaction and it might not have even been the vaccine. I am in the process of taking her to Court led mediations and one of my agenda items is to get our girls vaccinated. There is no way in hell she will agree though. When I take them back to the states I am always a bit nervous...
 
You are the one taking it down the slippery slope... government should not be able to force anything on a person. Unless a person intentionally targets a person or is intentionally negligent with their disease they have done nothing wrong and first they would have to even know they had the disease. Most spread it prior to even knowing the have it.
Intentionally negligent.....is.... not immunizing your children.
 
Product safety testing. Speed limits. Pilot recurrent training. Food handling regulations. Nuclear power plant safety standards.

None of that is forced on a person... don't drive. Don't be a pilot or fly. Grow your own food. Don't work at a nuclear power plant.
 
Intentionally negligent.....is.... not immunizing your children.

I almost put that I knew somebody would say that in brackets... no, it is not intentionally negligent.
 
I almost put that I knew somebody would say that in brackets... no, it is not intentionally negligent.

Of course it is, by definition it is.

The conscious decision to fail to take proper care in doing something.
 
Would you rather him live as a potato than scratch for a week and live a normal life? You do not get to choose what the side-effects will be. They happen or they don't.

There is almost no risk of side effects. They almost never happen.
 
It's a public health risk to not get vaccinations for diseases that at one time were wide spread. I'm sad to hear some diseases that were once almost eradicated are coming back due to people not vaccinating their children.

The same goes for vaccinations against infectious flue like H1N1 virus or the yearly flu vaccine. Why risk flu if you are already not well?
 
I was there back then.

My aunt was a Frontier nurse/midwife who rode horseback to homes and one /two room schools in the hills of Kentucky during the 1940s and 50s . She gave vaccinations to the school children to help protect them.

When I was a child I had a reaction to my smallpox vaccination. I had a fever, and my arm was hot, red and swollen where the injection was given.

My mom was concerned and my aunt told her she understood the concern but if I had contracted smallpox my whole body would have those very painful lumps all over it.

My parents protected me by having me get that vaccine and the others available.

When I had my 4 children they did not need the smallpox vaccination since smallpox was erraticated.
But I made sure my children had all their vaccinations.

And my grandchildren have/will get their vaccinations too.

This discussion is not about smallpox. It is about the measles vaccine, which did not exist in the 1940's and 50's. Please re-read the OP and try to keep up.
 
Infants died, kids died, the elderly died, people with compromised immune systems died. We did worry about it. Pregnant women had to be very very careful as well not to get it.

You have a very incomplete and inaccurate view of history.

And btw, you may not still be immune.

Inaccurate view of history? I lived during the era. I don't have to read science fiction on the Internet.
 
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