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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

Bodhisattva said:
I never claimed that autism was caused by vaccines... although SIDS and ADHD might be. Since nobody knows either way it is a reasonable question.
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Just as an aside, I think it's worth considering that those things may be caused by environmental affects on the mother during pregnancy (not necessarily pollution, altho possible, but more like stress during specific periods during gestation. Or things she is exposed to or even ingests.) But esp. stress. It causes all sorts of hormonal releases in women. I dont know if they are researching this area or not.
 
Tettsuo said:
LOL... nothing in this chart has anything to do with the development of natural immunity as opposed to the artificial immunity created by vaccines.

Did you get your booster shots? You'll need it, cause vaccine immunity is temporary.
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Polio was wiped out by "artificial" immunity. Vaccines have created a 100% objectively better outcome. Why didn't natural immunity accomplish this? You claim it is superior, but I'm not seeing anything to back that up.
 
Bodhisattva said:
In general... yes. In the end though it should be a family choice and not a mandate. This is not the same as a seat belt or child helmet.
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Do you think then, that if your child is not vaccinated, that schools should be able to refuse them entry? Because realistically they are endangering other kids. (Again, no vaccine is 100% and there are also those kids that cannot be vaccinated.)
 
Thanks, anti-vaxxers.

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I like the wordplay with vaccine and vacuous.

Measles returns: Of vaccines and vacuous starlets | The Economist
 
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Bodhisattva said:
Or that because there isn't mandatory and precautionary testing that takes place prior to vaccinations you might potentially be injecting your child with harmful and deadly chemicals.
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Of course, definitely. That is the point of such testing and holistic diagnostics.

But then wouldnt you appreciate more those parents that get their kids vaccinated so that yours would have less chance of exposure?
 
Tettsuo said:
You do know that you can get the polio virus and get over it with no lasting or even traumatic effects, right? In fact, the vast majority of people that contracted polio didn't really have any issues getting over the disease, much like measles (specifically in developed countries).
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Oh? So maybe we should just let it run rampant again? Right? All it is is a bad flu! Right? There were 416 cases in 2013. Down from 335000 in 1985. Given that there are NO specific treatment. What does that mean? GET THE VACCINE! There is no logical reason to NOT get it. You have more of a reason to not to aspirin for a headache.
 
Lursa said:
Do you think then, that if your child is not vaccinated, that schools should be able to refuse them entry? Because realistically they are endangering other kids. (Again, no vaccine is 100% and there are also those kids that cannot be vaccinated.)
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Ignoring that some cannot be vaccinated; and that the dummies that don't vaccinate their kids put infants and the elderly at risk.
 
Taylor said:
Risk of death from measles is quite small. An infant is at least 100 times more likely to die of SIDS and that's already fairly rare.
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:doh The risk of death from measles for infants is small because until recently, infants no longer came into contact with measles...it was almost eradicated from the US. Now it has been re-introduced and is circulating. So there is a much higher chance of them contracting it. And it is very dangerous for infants and can lead to blindness and other harm even if they dont die.
 
Tettsuo said:
Nonsense.

I stated a fact. I thought the pro-vaccine crew liked facts. I guess not.
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Whether you stated a fact or not is irrelevant, and was not what I posted. Your method for giving people 'natural immunity' is to expose them to a potentially life-threatening disease. This means that even if the survivors are 100% immune for the rest of their lives, the fact that some will not survive shows that your method is hardly the best.

Another fact that being ignored is vaccines are not 100% safe. That's a lie.

Statistics Reports

Every year, a significant amount of money is paid to people, by the US, for reported vaccine injuries.

It's a risk vs reward balance.
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Your statistics page shows that 3,540 people were compensated for vaccine-related injuries or deaths since 1988. That's 136 people per year. For reference, over 300 people get struck by lightning in the US per year - 51 die. 150-200 people are killed - not merely injured - by food allergies in the US per year.

The later table puts it into even bigger perspective. Over the last 8 years, only 1,300 claims have been compensated from a grand total of almost 2 billion vaccinations.

It is indeed a risk vs reward balance. Practically zero risk, for an enormous reward.
 
Nobody finds it odd that the outbreak began in an area that is among the highest vaccination rates?
 
Khayembii Communique said:
What happened is that people die from complications due to measles. Measles is pretty rare in the US given the headway MMR vaccinations have been able to make against it.
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Possible, but highly implausible. We're dealing with simple child hood diseases. There were many when I was growing up in the 50's: chicken pox, mumps, 2 forms of measles. You got them, got the immunity, and you were good to go. I never heard of any fellow student having complications from the diseases. The only real complication I ever got was missing out on my classroom pictures, pictures that would have been valuable to me for old times sake, now, remembering days of long ago.


I also think that the government should provide a robust public health awareness program that includes regulation of the food industry and promotion of healthy lifestyles, so you're close.
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The government should never dictate to its populace how it is supposed to live. I'm an exercise fanatic and seldom get sick, but if others don't want to exercise and think me a bit eccentric, that is their prerogative. If you force people to exercise, they will resist and get little from it. If citizens want to eat fatty, sugary foods, then let them. The government needs to butt out.
 
Bodhisattva said:
How did that work out in the RvW Decision? Medical privacy trumps your paranoia.
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Back to that 'greater good' thing tho, abortion has no negative affects on society (that I'm aware of) yet epidemics do. Aside from body count, the effects on the economy and even national security are profound.
 
Hatuey said:
I blame the anti-science hippies and the anti-science christian fundies for this nonsense. I've never seen such ideologically different groups being so collectively responsible for widespread stupidity.
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You forgot the middle aged housewives who read blogs.
 
BmanMcfly said:
Nobody finds it odd that the outbreak began in an area that is among the highest vaccination rates?
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Didnt it start in Disney? A place with extremely diverse and transient visitation? Global, constant foot traffic?

So local vaccinations rates would matter less if people just came in, infected others, and then they all go their separate ways to other regions.
 
Deuce said:
Most people who were vaccinated are immune to it.

I am immune and vaccines didn't exist then. There were only vaccines for polio, diphtheria, typhoid fever, and that was it. Whooping cough was all but eradicated back then.
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Lursa said:
Back to that 'greater good' thing tho, abortion has no negative affects on society (that I'm aware of) yet epidemics do. Aside from body count, the effects on the economy and even national security are profound.
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You mean negative effects. The negative effects are that it murders a part of society, babies that could grow up to do great things, or mundane things, but they are not given that opportunity. Instead, they are flushed down the komode.
 
Quag said:
There are many flu strains they take an educated guess on what will be the most likely ones any given flu season and the shots are for that. Sometimes they are close sometimes they are way off.
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Sure. That does not mean flu shots are 95% ineffective. Nor does it change the source listed said 60% effective, which is not equivalent to saying 95% ineffective. This is not hard math folks.
 
joko104 said:
That's not accurate for all flue vaccinations NOR is that all that is in a vaccine.
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It is accurate for all flu vaccinations injected via a shot. I didn't say dead viruses were all that is in a vaccine, so that's an irrelevant comment.
 
Tettsuo said:
Hmmm, so you can have all of the symptoms of the flu, but not actually have the flu?
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Yes.

If so, then what's causing those reactions?

Most of the people who are questioning vaccines, question the ingredients contained within the vaccine and their efficacy. As do I.
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The body's immune system senses the presence of the dead virus and begins an immune response. It is this response that builds immunity to the virus, and some people may exhibit mild flu-like symptoms as a result. A flu infection requires a live virus replicating inside your body and damaging healthy cells. The flu vaccine injects a dead virus that does not replicate inside your body or damage any cells. Thus the vaccine does not cause a flu infection.

Again, this really is not hard to understand.
 
VanceMack said:
Its a legit question and if you are trying to make a point about the efficacy of the vaccine, then you should be able to understand who is getting sick today. People ARE getting the measles. WHO is being impacted? Is it people previously vaccinated? I keep hearing everyone freaking out about how others should get vaccinated so they dont put them or their kids at risk. Well...if the vaccine is the answer what is the problem?

I think people SHOULD get vaccinated. I just think that if there is this much concern about an outbreak or spread, something isnt altogether intact with regard to the measure of prevention.
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I took the intent of your post as trolling- I was wrong. Please accept my apology.
From what I understand certain regions in the US have a high rate of non vaccinations.When an outbreak occurs in these areas I am sure it will make data available as to who was impacted- died- from the outbreak.
As to who has been impacted - non vaccinated- those that had the vaccination decades ago - I have not read or found information on the stats.
 
bicycleman said:
Really? Were you there back then, or it is something you read on the Internet?
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I was there back then.

My aunt was a Frontier nurse/midwife who rode horseback to homes and one /two room schools in the hills of Kentucky during the 1940s and 50s . She gave vaccinations to the school children to help protect them.

When I was a child I had a reaction to my smallpox vaccination. I had a fever, and my arm was hot, red and swollen where the injection was given.

My mom was concerned and my aunt told her she understood the concern but if I had contracted smallpox my whole body would have those very painful lumps all over it.

My parents protected me by having me get that vaccine and the others available.

When I had my 4 children they did not need the smallpox vaccination since smallpox was erraticated.
But I made sure my children had all their vaccinations.

And my grandchildren have/will get their vaccinations too.
 
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VanceMack said:
Its a legit question and if you are trying to make a point about the efficacy of the vaccine, then you should be able to understand who is getting sick today. People ARE getting the measles. WHO is being impacted? Is it people previously vaccinated? I keep hearing everyone freaking out about how others should get vaccinated so they dont put them or their kids at risk. Well...if the vaccine is the answer what is the problem?

I think people SHOULD get vaccinated. I just think that if there is this much concern about an outbreak or spread, something isnt altogether intact with regard to the measure of prevention.
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Found some other info.
Vaccination Rates for US Children Remain Generally High, But Measles Outbreaks Underscore Shortfalls in Some Regions | news@JAMA
Schuchat noted that in 15 states, measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) coverage is below 90%, a level that is a “warning sign that outbreaks may occur or that the state as a whole may be becoming vulnerable,” she said. The survey results also highlight the need to improve vaccination rates during the second year of life.

The program was created in response to a resurgence of measles during 1989 to 1991, when 55 000 cases of measles and 123 measles-associated deaths were reported in the United States. Unvaccinated preschool-age children, many from low-income families, were disproportionately affected. According to Schuchat, such children were not being vaccinated because their families didn’t have insurance and their doctors were referring them to health department clinics to get their shots.
 
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