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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

I don't. There is no logical argument for keeping genetically weaker children in the gene pool. There is no societal argument justifying a policy that would force parents to shell out money they might not have to protect 1 or 2 kids a year from dying.

So you never had even 8th grade science then?

This is such a sad statement of ignorance that it would take more time than I have to go back that far to build you an actual foundation on which you 'might' actually understand how disease works on populations.

Not to mention the sheer ridiculousness that you would chalk your own kid's deaths up to 'oops, genetically inferior. Too bad!' and have so little empathy for others.
 
So you never had even 8th grade science then?

That is among my collection of science fair trophies I think--I'll have to double check.

This is such a sad statement of ignorance that it would take more time than I have to go back that far to build you an actual foundation on which you 'might' actually understand how disease works on populations.

The admission of your inabilities is noted, and demonstrated.

Not to mention the sheer ridiculousness that you would chalk your own kid's deaths up to 'oops, genetically inferior. Too bad!' and have so little empathy for others.

I have empathy for different others than you have empathy for. Why are your others superior to my others?
 
LOL That makes no sense.

Which is not a surprise.

Yes logic and reason are not always understood by some people, and you are further correct, it is no surprise.
 
That is the thing... they do not know what is causing the rise in any of those except to say that it is 100% NOT VACCINES. No way. Couldn't happen. Never.

When your child almost dies days after a vaccine and the adverse reactions mirror the CDC adverse reaction sheet and you ask the doctor if the vaccine might be a cause and that doctor actually laughs at you even though they just concluded that they have no idea what the actual cause was? Well, excuse independent and intelligent rational people from not wondering what the **** is going on.

No one is stopping you from discussing it with your doctor first. They can...and do...test for sensitivity to the common preservatives in vaccines. They can and shold examine your kid holistically, taking any other health issues into consideration before recommending a specific vaccination. There are also alternatives available for the sensitive.

For 3 years now here in supposedly sophisticated WA state, there's been an epidemic of whooping cough and many infants have died...because alot of people just dont bother to get vaccinated.
 
Yes logic and reason are not always understood by some people, and you are further correct, it is no surprise.

Insults only, not a single thing to support your paranoia and ignorance. Not surprising. Interestingly, not much you post is a surprise.
 
That is among my collection of science fair trophies I think--I'll have to double check.



The admission of your inabilities is noted, and demonstrated.


I have empathy for different others than you have empathy for. Why are your others superior to my others?

Yes, your imaginary science award is noted, because there is zero other evidence of it.

Insults again? You are the one proving no one has succeeded so far.

And my empathy is for infants, elderly, people fighting cancer, others with compromise immune systems that are victimized by your kind of ignorance.
 
The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services set up the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) in 1988 to compensate individuals and families of individuals injured by covered childhood vaccines.[3] The VICP was adopted in response to a scare over the pertussis portion of the DPT vaccine.[1] These claims were later generally discredited, but some U.S. lawsuits against vaccine makers won substantial awards. Most makers ceased production, and the last remaining major manufacturer threatened to do so.[1] The VICP uses a no-fault system for resolving vaccine injury claims.[1] Compensation covers medical and legal expenses, loss of future earning capacity, and up to $250,000 for pain and suffering; a death benefit of up to $250,000 is available. If certain minimal requirements are met, legal expenses are compensated even for unsuccessful claims.[4] Since 1988, the program has been funded by an excise tax of 75 cents on every purchased dose of covered vaccine. To win an award, a claimant must show a causal connection; if medical records show a child has one of several listed adverse effects soon after vaccination, the assumption is that it was caused by the vaccine. The burden of proof is the civil-law preponderance-of-the-evidence standard, in other words a showing that causation was more likely than not. Denied claims can be pursued in civil courts, though this is rare.[1]

The VICP covers all vaccines listed on the Vaccine Injury Table maintained by the Secretary of Health and Human Services; in 2007 the list included vaccines against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough), measles, mumps, rubella (German measles), polio, hepatitis B, varicella (chicken pox), Haemophilus influenzae type b, rotavirus, and pneumonia.[5] From 1988 until 8 January 2008, 5,263 claims relating to autism, and 2,865 non-autism claims, were made to the VICP. 925 of these claims, one autism-related (see previous rulings), were compensated, with 1,158 non-autism and 350 autism claims dismissed; awards (including attorney's fees) totaled $847 million.[6] The VICP also applies to claims for injuries suffered before 1988; there were 4,264 of these claims of which 1,189 were compensated with awards totaling $903 million.[6]

Vaccine court - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There have been over 2,000 judgments related to vaccinations totaling over $1.7 billion under federal law. It is nice that the government covers the liabilities of the mega rich drug companies concerning the totally safe, never could harm anyone vaccinations they sell for BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars each year

The government should do this for every company, actually for all of us. If anyone sues anyone of us for any wrongful action, the government pays the judgment. The government really should have paid BP's damages too. It's only fair, huh?

2000 total out of millions vaccinated every year? :doh More people than that die of the flu alone every year.

Errors in a medication? Of course it can happen, just like anything else manufactured or prepared...like cars, planes, foods, etc.

Somebody sees $$$ going to other people and not him and is jealous?
 
I asked you a completely different question related to the comments you made. Why do you have such a hard time with that?
You know as well as I that it cannot be answered by myself.
Why post the question?
 
I don't. There is no logical argument for keeping genetically weaker children in the gene pool.
Seriously? You believe that?

1) We have an ethical duty to keep our fellow citizens alive and healthy.
2) Contracting polio, or smallpox, or measles, or chickenpox, are not indicators of "genetic weakness."
3) Millions of lives were spared misery, suffering and death because of many vaccines.
4) Eugenics is not actually a logical argument. It's pseudo-science.


There is no societal argument justifying a policy that would force parents to shell out money they might not have to protect 1 or 2 kids a year from dying.
Yes, there is.

If the disease is sufficiently harmful, and highly contagious, then it becomes an issue of protecting the society as a whole.

We can't vaccinate everyone (e.g. some people have immune disorders), some people lose their resistance over time, and the more people that are vaccinated means the fewer vectors for disease transmission. We also can completely eradicate some horrible diseases with compulsory vaccination.

There is no logical or ethical argument for claiming that we would be better off today with polio and smallpox still circulating in America.
 

None of the links you posted has anything to do with the connection between gut issues and autism. Did you not understand my previous posts? Do you need me to repost them?
 
None of the links you posted has anything to do with the connection between gut issues and autism. Did you not understand my previous posts? Do you need me to repost them?

Second link:

Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses

All 8 of these children had gastrointestinal symptoms and signs and lymphoid nodular hyperplasia revealed on endoscopy. From these observations, Wakefield postulated that MMR vaccine caused intestinal inflammation that led to translocation of usually nonpermeable peptides to the bloodstream and, subsequently, to the brain, where they affected development.

Did you actually read the links? It seems like you didn't read them and just assumed they didn't address the studies by Wakefield.
 
You can only get infected by a flu virus if the virus is alive. Flu shots inject dead viruses. They cannot give you the flu.

Hmmm, so you can have all of the symptoms of the flu, but not actually have the flu? If so, then what's causing those reactions?

Most of the people who are questioning vaccines, question the ingredients contained within the vaccine and their efficacy. As do I.
 
Did anyone else hear Ron Paul? He has "seen healthy walking talking kids" become autistic after vaccines. :eyeroll:

This is friggin stupid. Politicizing a debate that is so logical for one side, and so proven, that it just makes no sense.

You are more likely to have issues with aspirin than vaccines.
 
None of the links you posted has anything to do with the connection between gut issues and autism. Did you not understand my previous posts? Do you need me to repost them?

This 2013 study found no link

5 November 2012

Bacterial controversy: Some studies have found certain bacterial species in children with autism and not in controls, but a new study says there are no differences between the groups.

Contradicting a popular hypothesis in autism, a new study from Australia has found no connection between autism and bacteria in the gut. The analysis, published 20 September in the journal Autism Research, reports that the gastrointestinal (GI) systems of children with autism harbor the same bacteria as those of their typically developing siblings1.

“Our conclusion was there’s no single organism that we can pinpoint as being always involved in autism,” says Enzo Palombo, associate professor of microbiology at the Swinburne University of Technology in Melbourne, Australia, who is one of the investigators.

Study finds no link between autism and gut microbes
 
Insults only, not a single thing to support your paranoia and ignorance. Not surprising. Interestingly, not much you post is a surprise.

I think this whole thing is nothing but paranoia and ignorance. Places like Colorado had an 80% vaccination rate for years, and the bodies of kids are not building up in the street. People should get vaccines, but we're not at some point at which now everyone is susceptible to death, herd immunity is still pretty well working. There will be some non-zero cases of measles and such though, but it doesn't mean we're all going to die.

Now it's vaccines, before it was ebola, it seems like there's always some manufactured crisis we have to freak out about but they never really seem to come to anything. No one died from Ebola, and we're not going to go through a major measles pandemic.
 
You know as well as I that it cannot be answered by myself.
Why post the question?
Its a legit question and if you are trying to make a point about the efficacy of the vaccine, then you should be able to understand who is getting sick today. People ARE getting the measles. WHO is being impacted? Is it people previously vaccinated? I keep hearing everyone freaking out about how others should get vaccinated so they dont put them or their kids at risk. Well...if the vaccine is the answer what is the problem?

I think people SHOULD get vaccinated. I just think that if there is this much concern about an outbreak or spread, something isnt altogether intact with regard to the measure of prevention.
 
Second link:

Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses

Did you actually read the links? It seems like you didn't read them and just assumed they didn't address the studies by Wakefield.

I see, you didn't understand what I was asking.

I don't care about Andrew Wakefield. So your continued desire to discredit him means nothing to me.

Your article is addressing HOW Wakefield conducted his research (mostly), but that does NOT mean there is no connection between gut issues and autism. Also, vaccines do contain antibiotics (residual). If you understand anything about the gut, you'll know that antibiotics (and many other environmental toxins) wipe out all bacteria, good and bad. That's the problem. We NEED the good bacteria in our guts! This why I was specific in my response.

Stop doing what? Questioning that idea that autism and gut issues are link? Because that's what I'm doing.

That was what I was addressing and what I ask for the link on.
 
I see, you didn't understand what I was asking.

Oh no, I definitely did. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. Wakefield's research was discredited. Hell, the findings in his research couldn't be reproduced. You now resorting to trying to argue that just because Wakefield's research was discredited doesn't mean that his claims were discredited is an exercise in semantics.
 
The cost of vaccinating everyone in the USA for measles is $20,000,000,000.00. Do the math.
 
It is TOTALLY irresponsible for people to drive anywhere unless absolutely necessary and that government does not STRICTLY prohibit driving unless it can be shown the travel is a necessity for life.

There are over 5 MILLION auto accidents a year in the USA, hundreds of thousands of people injured, and over 30,000 people die each year in auto accidents.

HOW EVIL can people be to show TOTAL disregard for the safety of others by needlessly driving?

The fact is the earth is round. The sky is blue. And you won't kill anyone with your automobile if you aren't driving it.

Anyone who drives their child anywhere unless absolutely necessary should be charged with child abuse and their child(ren) taken away.

That's how the logic works, right?
 
The cost of vaccinating everyone in the USA for measles is $20,000,000,000.00. Do the math.

For one? Or For every vaccine? Additionally...what is the cost of caring for everyone with polio, smallpox, and so on?
 
For one? Or For every vaccine? Additionally...what is the cost of caring for everyone with polio, smallpox, and so on?

You do know that you can get the polio virus and get over it with no lasting or even traumatic effects, right? In fact, the vast majority of people that contracted polio didn't really have any issues getting over the disease, much like measles (specifically in developed countries).
 
It is TOTALLY irresponsible for people to drive anywhere unless absolutely necessary and that government does not STRICTLY prohibit driving unless it can be shown the travel is a necessity for life.

There are over 5 MILLION auto accidents a year in the USA, hundreds of thousands of people injured, and over 30,000 people die each year in auto accidents.

HOW EVIL can people be to show TOTAL disregard for the safety of others by needlessly driving?

The fact is the earth is round. The sky is blue. And you won't kill anyone with your automobile if you aren't driving it.

Anyone who drives their child anywhere unless absolutely necessary should be charged with child abuse and their child(ren) taken away.

That's how the logic works, right?
The benefits of driving far, far outweigh the costs. Notice, though, that it is illegal to drive in an unsafe way; too fast, while drunk, or without a seatbelt.

The benefit of not vaccinating your child? You don't have to take the one-in-millions chance that they will be allergic to one of the components (I bet you are happy about them eating nuts, though). The costs are currently visible in California. It's not even a close comparison.
 
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