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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

Bodhisattva said:
I don't go to the doctor in general. Waste of time and money. Feel free to come to your own conclusion though...

One thing I love is how they say you can't get the flu from the shot but you side effects are this:

Runny nose
Wheezing
Headache
Vomiting
Muscle aches
Fever

And here are the symptoms of the flu itself:

Fever and extreme coldness (chills shivering, shaking (rigor))
Cough
Nasal congestion
Runny nose
Sneezing
Body aches, especially joints and throat
Fatigue
Headache
Irritated, watering eyes
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You can only get infected by a flu virus if the virus is alive. Flu shots inject dead viruses. They cannot give you the flu.
 
whysoserious said:
Would be possible if you did the kind you inhale because that's a live virus. The shot is not a live virus so it wouldn't be possible for it to cause the flu.
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Anything is possible...
 
Lakryte said:
You can only get infected by a flu virus if the virus is alive. Flu shots inject dead viruses. They cannot give you the flu.
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I never said that I got the flu from the shot...
 
Lakryte said:
You said 95% ineffective. Your source says 60% effective...aka 40% ineffective. You were way off.
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It is 100% ineffective really...
 
Lakryte said:
You said 95% ineffective. Your source says 60% effective...aka 40% ineffective. You were way off.
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There are many flu strains they take an educated guess on what will be the most likely ones any given flu season and the shots are for that. Sometimes they are close sometimes they are way off.
 
Lakryte said:
You can only get infected by a flu virus if the virus is alive. Flu shots inject dead viruses.
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That's not accurate for all flue vaccinations NOR is that all that is in a vaccine.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I don't go to the doctor in general. Waste of time and money. Feel free to come to your own conclusion though...

One thing I love is how they say you can't get the flu from the shot but you side effects are this:

Runny nose
Wheezing
Headache
Vomiting
Muscle aches
Fever

And here are the symptoms of the flu itself:

Fever and extreme coldness (chills shivering, shaking (rigor))
Cough
Nasal congestion
Runny nose
Sneezing
Body aches, especially joints and throat
Fatigue
Headache
Irritated, watering eyes
Click to expand...

:thumbs:
 
JANFU said:
The original question asked was this.

I answered the question asked. Clear and concise. Rebut my answer.
Dishonest - nope-
Not into BS crap about my being dishonest. Fair or not? Over to you

The only ones who would know that answer are the health authorities.
Call them and ask.
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I asked you a completely different question related to the comments you made. Why do you have such a hard time with that?
 
Northern Light said:
In order to really have this discussion properly with you it would take hours and hours of educating you, and even then you probably wouldn't even listen.
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I would listen... if you could prove that the alternatives actually work.

You can't, because they don't. Study after study have shown they don't. If they did, I'd happily suggest using them, and encourage further study to understand how and why.

No data, no credibility. Them's the breaks.


The medical system is broken. If vaccines are the only thing standing between us and epidemics then we're pretty S.O.L. because the vaccines won't last forever.
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How we pay for health care in the US is a problem -- in part because it's so good, that people are living long enough to develop some pretty serious and expensive illnesses. The system itself isn't perfect, but the general concept works very well. So well that people like you can take it for granted, and complain when it doesn't work like magic and heal people overnight.

There is no question that vaccines are the only thing preventing us from getting polio and smallpox, and they do a very good job at protecting against other diseases. Millions of lives could be saved and/or spared agony if we can develop vaccines for HIV/AIDS, Ebola, and other diseases.

You should also keep in mind that vaccines are not like antibiotics. Diseases rarely develop a resistance to vaccines, and we can develop vaccines for the resistant strains.

Nothing you've said even remotely disproves this, you aren't even trying. No data, no credibility.
 
Tettsuo said:
I'd love to read the research that discredits this. Please provide.
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Good grief, start here:

AFP Journal Club: Autism and Childhood Vaccinations: Debunking the Myth - American Family Physician

There are many holes in this argument. First, this was a self-referred cohort without a control group. Second, in Great Britain, approximately 50,000 children one to two years of age receive the MMR vaccine each month; this is a time when autism typically presents, making this likely a coincidental association. Third, the MMR vaccine has not been found to cause chronic intestinal inflammation. Fourth, no toxic encephalopathic proteins traveling from the intestine to the brain have ever been identified. Instead, genes that code for endogenous proteins, which influence neuronal synapse function, have been identified in children with autism.3
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Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses
Pervasive developmental disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: prev... - PubMed - NCBI

You know, it's one thing to feign ignorance, it's another to simply ignore the evidence that does exist.
 
Visbek said:
I would listen... if you could prove that the alternatives actually work.

You can't, because they don't.
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Yeah, that really inspires me to put actually work into this discussion. :shrug:

Visbek said:
How we pay for health care in the US is a problem -- in part because it's so good,
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:lamo

Visbek said:
There is no question that vaccines are the only thing preventing us from getting polio and smallpox, and they do a very good job at protecting against other diseases. Millions of lives could be saved and/or spared agony if we can develop vaccines for HIV/AIDS, Ebola, and other diseases.
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Sigh... I never disputed that.

Visbek said:
You should also keep in mind that vaccines are not like antibiotics. Diseases rarely develop a resistance to vaccines, and we can develop vaccines for the resistant strains.
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Do you have some kind of self-talk program running? I know what vaccines are and what they do, ffs.

Visbek said:
Nothing you've said even remotely disproves this, you aren't even trying. No data, no credibility.
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In case you haven't noticed, I'm not really trying. :shrug:

If you believe so strongly in vaccines then go get vaccinated. As I said it has nothing to do with me.
 
Declan said:
Would you rather him live as a potato than scratch for a week and live a normal life? You do not get to choose what the side-effects will be. They happen or they don't.
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And you cannot tell who's infants will get it and die. That happens...or it dont.

When your kids go around unvaccinated, their brothers and sisters bring it back to the infants in the home that cannot be vaccinated or have weaker immune systems.
 
Declan said:
Perhaps, but apparently the government telling people measles had been vanquished here was bunk too. Maybe they should keep such things secret :shrug:
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Duh? It pretty much was. Ever heard of travel from other countries? :doh
 
Lursa said:
And you cannot tell who's infants will get it and die. That happens...or it dont.

When your kids go around unvaccinated, their brothers and sisters bring it back to the infants in the home that cannot be vaccinated or have weaker immune systems.
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Why would I care?
 
Declan said:
Why would I care?
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Thanks for your honesty. Good luck when you are elderly....you will again be susceptible. Or undergoing chemotherapy.

But...why would I care?
 
Declan said:
Perhaps, but then people complain about kids shouldn't be homeschooled.
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Who?

And the lack of contact with others just makes homeschooled kids more vulnerable so not vaccinating them is ignorant & dangerous as well.

But....you dont care.
 
Lursa said:
Thanks for your honesty. Good luck when you are elderly....you will again be susceptible. Or undergoing chemotherapy.

But...why would I care?
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You shouldn't. By that time I will be a drain on societal resources anyways.
 
Lursa said:
Who?

And the lack of contact with others just makes homeschooled kids more vulnerable so not vaccinating them is ignorant & dangerous as well.

But....you dont care.
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I don't. There is no logical argument for keeping genetically weaker children in the gene pool. There is no societal argument justifying a policy that would force parents to shell out money they might not have to protect 1 or 2 kids a year from dying.
 
joko104 said:
They never answer that question, do they? If vaccinations do work, then what the hell difference does it make if every other kid in the school wasn't vaccinated for that disease?

Instead, belief in vaccinations is like a religion to some people. Anyone who doesn't believe in their religion is evil and should be banished and hated.
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Vaccinations have different rates of efficacy but none are 100%. And not everyone can be vaccinated.

The more people that are vaccinated means that there are fewer people with the disease that can infect other people, thereby reducing deaths in infants, elderly, immuno-compromised, etc.

Thorough vaccination of a non-Internet 'susceptible to anything that comes down the pike' thinking in earlier decades had nearly eradicated measles in America. However it can be re-introduced anytime from outside the country. :doh

And oh, looky here...it found a new, unvaccinated population to exploit all over again.

Yup, that's how it works.
 
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