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Thread: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Do you mean to say a limit of zero? Nothing in his argument leads to no government.
    Typo aside, yes, that's exactly where the argument is going.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    so I must risk my body sovereignty because you want to protect yours?

    Seems almost like your anti-VAX position could be used to undermine the 2A
    In what way does someone not getting a vaccine act on you? What you decide to do with your body is your business and risk factors such as disease exist in this world. Grow up and deal with life.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    Typo aside, yes, that's exactly where the argument is going.
    The argument towards the elimination of government is not one of maintaining a government that is contained in a box.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    Here's your problem. You're using Wikipedia, not a reliable resource.
    First one to come up and since it says the same thing as all the authorities on measles it is valid but if it makes you feel better

    Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.
    •As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
    •About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.
    •For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.

    Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.
    Measles | Complications | CDC

    Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
    In 2013, there were 145 700 measles deaths globally – about 400 deaths every day or 16 deaths every hour.
    Measles vaccination resulted in a 75% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2013 worldwide.
    In 2013, about 84% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 73% in 2000.
    During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.
    WHO | Measles

    So again people DO die from it.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Sure. That does not mean flu shots are 95% ineffective. Nor does it change the source listed said 60% effective, which is not equivalent to saying 95% ineffective. This is not hard math folks.
    Not disagreeing with you merely pointing out why the Flu effectiveness changes from year to year and why it is never as effective as others such as the MMR vaccine. It is still far more effective than just hoping you don't get sick.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    This discussion is not about smallpox. It is about the measles vaccine, which did not exist in the 1940's and 50's. Please re-read the OP and try to keep up.
    I was there during the measles outbreaks too.

    My children were born in the 70s and the 80s and I had them vaccinated.
    I never had rubella as a child so I had my blood tested and got the rubella shot to protect my pregnancies.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It was a miscommunication. All good. Sorry...

    I will go back and say again that if the state denies entrance into a school for an unvaccinated kid then the state needs to supply that kid with a teacher...
    Totally disagree. The parents who choose not to vaccinate the kids (for other than medical reasons) are responsible for footing the bill for their choice.

    A kid who can't get a vaccine due to medical reasons should be admitted to the school ; the herd immunity should protect them.

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    No. It would be simply nice if they made them free.
    .
    How much do they actually cost? aren't they covered by health insurance?

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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I think I asked already but do you have any sources for this?
    Because vaccines are injected, they bypass the normal system of immune response. This is why many vaccines wear off far earlier than simply getting the virus.

    Immunity: Natural and Acquired | Vaccines.gov

    The skin provides an imposing barrier to invading microbes. It is generally penetrable only through cuts or tiny abrasions. The digestive and respiratory tracts—both portals of entry for a number of microbes—also have their own levels of protection. Microbes entering the nose often cause the nasal surfaces to secrete more protective mucus, and attempts to enter the nose or lungs can trigger a sneeze or cough reflex to force microbial invaders out of the respiratory passageways. The stomach contains a strong acid that destroys many pathogens that are swallowed with food.

    If microbes survive the body’s front-line defenses, they still have to find a way through the walls of the digestive, respiratory, or urogenital passageways to the underlying cells. These passageways are lined with tightly packed epithelial cells covered in a layer of mucus, effectively blocking the transport of many pathogens into deeper cell layers.

    Antibodies are triggered when a B cell encounters its matching antigen; the B cell takes in the antigen and digests it; then it displays antigen fragments bound to its own distinctive MHC molecules. The combination of antigen fragment and MHC molecule attracts the help of a mature, matching T cell. Lymphokines secreted by the T cell allow the B cell to multiply and mature into antibody-producing plasma cells. Released into the bloodstream, antibodies lock onto matching antigens. These antigen-antibody complexes are soon eliminated, either by the complement cascade or by the liver and the spleen.
    B cells are triggered to mature into plasma cells that produce a specific kind of antibody when the B cell encounters a specific antigen.

    Mucosal surfaces also secrete a special class of antibody called IgA, which in many cases is the first type of antibody to encounter an invading microbe. Underneath the epithelial layer a variety of immune cells, including macrophages, B cells, and T cells, lie in wait for any microbe that might bypass the barriers at the surface.

    Next, invaders must escape a series of general defenses of the innate immune system, which are ready to attack without regard for specific antigen markers. These include patrolling phagocytes, natural killer T cells, and complement.

    Microbes cross the general barriers then confront specific weapons of the adaptive immune system tailored just for them. These specific weapons, which include both antibodies and T cells, are equipped with singular receptor structures that allow them to recognize and interact with their designated targets.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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    re: Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So people must get their body sovereignty violated because they might get sick and that might lead to other people getting sick? So to you the government should force medical treatment on people because of risks?
    Yes.

    That's the price of living in a society that gives you so many benefits.

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